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Finrod
Greenhorn
Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 42
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Posted: 23 Nov 2010 at 01:27 |
For what it's worth, I don't believe 0-0 and Valar are using TMM as a smokescreen; the timing of the events they charge Cyan with occured before the TMM flare up. It is just unhappy coincidence for WE (from the WE perspective) that these wars coincide.
Since this started, I've been trying to get to the truth, and to find a diplomatic solution. Until multiple siege camps have recently been erected, I didn't ask for troops, only mediation. Even now, I don't want the war to escalate, I would rather find peace and satisfy all sides.
BecBlue, would you speak with me? In private messages? I take no offense if you refuse.
Cyan has been a good member to his alliance, sharing knowledge and resources; obviously our neighbors view him differently.
I will agree that the chat posted on this forum did occur; but also state that they were taken out of context. Kome was left to deal with SirTwitchy because Yearick believed, after SirTwitchy told his side, that Kome acted aggressively (killing caravans). Yearick's post in context was that if Kome needed resources so badly that he just had to have that resource spawn, Yearick would have gladly given some of his own rather that cause an incident over killing a caravan. That was the "official" end to the matter on our side; although it would seem diplomatic attacks continued; 0-0 remain emphatic on this point and it is fruitless to argue it. I concede they very well may have. I honestly don't know what our relationship could have become if this had not occurred, which is regretful.
Now, I read the other chat quote this morning and it is no longer on my web page... I can't remember what it said, so I won't pretend 
While I haven't learned the complete facts of this war, I am certain that among the causes was the lack of open communication between the alliances. Had our alliances communicated more often, a greater level of trust was likely to have existed, and a different conclusion than war may have been reached to resolve disputes.
Finrod
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col0005
Forum Warrior
Joined: 20 Apr 2010
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 238
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Posted: 23 Nov 2010 at 03:14 |
Hey just thought I should let everyone know that bec has entered talks with finrod and while its too early to announce anything we're looking for apologies on both sides from particular members.
I'd also like to say that it's not the caravans or the mass diplomatic attack from cyan against random members from our alliance that inspired this sige but rather several days of defensive and evasive resposes to our questions merely stating that we were attacking his members. After about 5 messages back and forth we discovered that only kome had been attacked. Internally we discovered who it was and that messages had been sent between the two players so cyan knew who the culprit was, but this player wasn't one of those attacked by cyan. We never recieved a reason for this instance of general thieving, or neglect to contact our leadership.
Finally Birds and GNU i have graph skills and computer skills, and that means that I can give you "proof" I could photoshop a perfect screen dump of what generally happened and you wouldn't know the difference. But we haven't B.S. you and i'm sure that from their point of view most WE members haven't been B.S.ing you, evidence would be very easy to fabricate.
Edited by col0005 - 23 Nov 2010 at 03:18
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Brids17
Postmaster General
Joined: 30 Jul 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1483
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Posted: 23 Nov 2010 at 04:31 |
col0005 wrote:
Finally Birds and GNU i have graph skills and computer skills, and that means that I can give you "proof" I could photoshop a perfect screen dump of what generally happened and you wouldn't know the difference. But we haven't B.S. you and i'm sure that from their point of view most WE members haven't been B.S.ing you, evidence would be very easy to fabricate. |
More people know how to do: [21:34] -Cyan-I hate 0-0 and so I'm gonna mass diplo attack them! Than people who know how to do what you just said. Screenshots are far better proof if you as me.
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col0005
Forum Warrior
Joined: 20 Apr 2010
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 238
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Posted: 23 Nov 2010 at 04:53 |
Yeah true, however there would be atleast one player with a rudimentary understanding of photoshop in any decent sized alliance, therefore any proof is very flimsy, and in some ways could be interpreted as an admission of guilt, as you're already building your case before any accusations are made, just a thought.
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Smoking GNU
Forum Warrior
Joined: 12 Jun 2010
Location: Windhoek
Status: Offline
Points: 313
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Posted: 23 Nov 2010 at 10:06 |
col0005 wrote:
Hey just thought I should let everyone know that bec has entered talks with finrod and while its too early to announce anything we're looking for apologies on both sides from particular members.
I'd also like to say that it's not the caravans or the mass diplomatic attack from cyan against random members from our alliance that inspired this sige but rather several days of defensive and evasive resposes to our questions merely stating that we were attacking his members. After about 5 messages back and forth we discovered that only kome had been attacked. Internally we discovered who it was and that messages had been sent between the two players so cyan knew who the culprit was, but this player wasn't one of those attacked by cyan. We never recieved a reason for this instance of general thieving, or neglect to contact our leadership.
Finally Birds and GNU i have graph skills and computer skills, and that means that I can give you "proof" I could photoshop a perfect screen dump of what generally happened and you wouldn't know the difference. But we haven't B.S. you and i'm sure that from their point of view most WE members haven't been B.S.ing you, evidence would be very easy to fabricate. |
If it's so easy to do, why not make some yourself then and post it here in order to passify the masses? Oh, thats right, because it would be fake, and the accused would then be able to come up with actual evidence refuting youres, and you'd have gone nowhere. Nice try.
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Finrod
Greenhorn
Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 42
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Posted: 23 Nov 2010 at 12:14 |
I would like to confirm that BecBlue has contacted me to talk about the situation.
WE has been ordered to commit no aggressive behavior against 0-0, but we'll continue to defend with what we have left.
There has been no contact with Valar, I admit in part because I haven't had time (I've typed more the last few days than I ever did in school); but they have also not contacted me.
Edited by Finrod - 23 Nov 2010 at 12:15
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col0005
Forum Warrior
Joined: 20 Apr 2010
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 238
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Posted: 23 Nov 2010 at 12:55 |
GNU do you really believe that WE has evidence that can prove that they're innocent? Assuming that all 0-0 is evil and have been lying the whole time what could possibly be used as proof that they didn't committ a certain act, unless they for some reason took a screen dump of them not doing anything, which would HAVE to be photoshoped because why would they take a screen dump, in the same position of nothing happening?
Also assuming I had a screenshot of the diplomatic attacks, the thing would be that it would just show diplomatic attacks and we would enter a discussion about what type of unit they were, if they're only scouts you certainly can't fault cyan, however we'd have no way of proving one way or another what they were.
I believe that this has become a seperate issue from the current topic, but I would like to suggest that you should either gather support to petition for scribes to be added as an ingame feature for proof. Whereby un-alterable photo's can be sent via ingame mechanics, or that this absurd demand for proof be droped for the different sides stateing their case, and judgments being made due to what external players know of player charater and what has been said.
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Teiru
New Poster
Joined: 01 Oct 2010
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 9
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Posted: 23 Nov 2010 at 13:25 |
I have said this before in global chat and I'll say it again here. To prove innocence is quite hard when the accuser does not provide any dates with timestamps. Otherwise we would all have to screenshot and log everything we do just in case someone in our area gets thieved from to be able to prove our innocence.
Let me see if I have gotten this straight. You wrongly accuse us, you destroy several cities and then you want to solve things in a diplomatic manner, which btw you have ignored during all this time, and after all that you demand an apology? An apology for something we have not done! You know all this but you do it so that other players of Illyriad can see how you "tried" to solve it and not look like the offenders that you are. Very clever, I must admit, I did underestimate your intelligence. You have won this war. Cyan is no longer a member of WE neither am I, so this has nothing to do with WE anymore. I applause and congratulate you for your great victory. Your moms must be proud.
Edited by Teiru - 23 Nov 2010 at 13:27
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Smoking GNU
Forum Warrior
Joined: 12 Jun 2010
Location: Windhoek
Status: Offline
Points: 313
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Posted: 23 Nov 2010 at 14:27 |
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Sad to hear that Teiru.
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Becblue
New Poster
Joined: 28 May 2010
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 9
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Posted: 23 Nov 2010 at 16:33 |
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@Let me see if I have gotten this straight. You wrongly accuse us, you destroy several cities and then you want to solve things in a diplomatic manner, which btw you have ignored during all this time, and  after all that you demand an apology? An apology for something we have not done! Sent By: Cyan Received By: BecBlue Sent: 23OCT10 14:50 Subject: Re: Re: Re: Hello :)
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Hard to say which one exactly but using a ruler and extrapolating back it was either Rockhaven (Cantab) or his clanmate from the other river bank New Horizon (Rexxen).
~C~
> ------------------------------------------ > Sent By: BecBlue > Received By: Cyan > Sent: 23OCT10 11:28 > Subject: Re: Re: Hello :) > Message: > ------------------------------------------ > Sent By: Cyan > Received By: BecBlue > Sent: 23OCT10 11:04 > Subject: Re: Hello :) > Message: I do believe it was YOUR players launched thief attacks in under three hours from moving into our area before we even knew you had arrived.
That I send scouts and spies to find out more about such hostile invaders should not be too surprising. **Why not message me about the problems first :P ~C~ **Hello, I was not told of any attacks from my players could you please name who & who they attacked so i know. We are a pretty happy & helpful bunch and hope we can come to a agreement for peace(NAP) Iam very sorry for any wrong doing on our part. Thanks Bec :)------------------------------------------ > Sent By: BecBlue > Received By: Cyan > Sent: 23OCT10 04:07 > Subject: Hello :) > Message: Hello How r u? I was wondering what your intentions towards my alliance are. I had hoped we could work together peacefully in securing this area on the map but i have been informed by my players they have had diplo attacks and we believe they are coming from you and we would like to know why? Thanks BecBlue :)
**Just so everyone can see i was the one who tried to be friendly and diplomatically sort things out to start with. My point of view is Cyan knew about the Kome-SirTwitchy problem but used it as a excuse to attack PoS and Valars with not scouts and spies as he said but theives and i was on at the time and witnessed the attacks that's why i knew who to send a message to but enough said already, me and Finrod are reaching a agreement to restore peace between the alliances Thanks and Best Wishes BecBlue :) Oh and Teiru was @ Your moms must be proud. Really needed :P
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