why isnt there talk of the war here

ajqtrz wrote: You are correct, I took less time than I should.  A chapter, though, is not complete without the rest of the tome.  So I didn't read the entire tome.  My mistake. It appeared to me that it was an advertisement, and it was, and I looked no further, not realizing it was a free publication.

erm...no, still wrong. the entire work is posted; one has merely to click on the navigation link back out to the main work to navigate it by chapter. so...not incomplete, and not an advertisement. what you did was give it a cursory glance and then pretend to know the author's mind...and that is a rl parallel i think many of your discussion partners will appreciate.

And while I'm at it, let this be my official statement about why I am NOT involved militarily.

1) Look at the map.  You see any STOMP around me?  No?
3) Look at the map.  You see the land claims almost surrounding me?  Yes?  Good.
4) Look at my size.  Do you think I would last a fortnight against those around me?
5) Given that STOMP would need to defend me if I were to join, wouldn't it be a great drain on resources for no gain?

I'm a little surprised the brilliant military minds that keep saying I should join STOMP haven't figured this out, or, they have and want me to join in order to weaken their opponent.  A good military strategy on their part, but hardly an honest question for them to ask. 

All I ask in anything is for people, including myself, to be honest with themselves and others.  Nobody can see what they haven't yet seen, but when you see it, admit it.  I'll do the same.

AJ

Personally, I find, so far, the Illryiad Times to be the closer to traditional journalism (https://illyriadtimes.wordpress.com/) though supposedly it's being run by pro-claim advocates.  My personal opinion is that while they may or may not be pro-claim they are close enough (so far) to good journalism as to be read and respected.

The other post, https://illyriadpost.wordpress.com/ is obviously slanted to the anti-claim position, but they don't hide it, and that, too, is good journalism, in my opinion.  Better to know the reports slant before you read than the reporter trying to "spin" things without you knowing it.

Finally, it would be interesting if a group of Illyites did try to start a full time, not just this war, type "news magazine."  If there are any journalist wannabe's out there it would be good practice.

Just my thoughts.

AJ

They're not doing it for the players community. They're either doing it for their own imperialist agenda (whilst hiding behind a freedom fighter banner), or blinded into thinking that the entire community (sans land claimers) was wishing for this 'liberation'.

Edited by Han Dynasty - 24 Jun 2015 at 01:59

mjc2,

First, I apologize if I miss-read your statement.  So you don't think it can become a problem.  I sit here, humbly corrected.  But that, of course, only makes you seem a bit more naive than saying it isn't a problem in the first place, at least to me it seems a bit more naive.  For if it's not a problem now (intimidation is not a problem?), then you would have to be pretty sure that no alliance making a land claim in the future will ever enforce their claims as to enforce a claim is to be coercive.  Or do you think players should be able to coerce other players against their will and for no other reason than they wish to play the game as the game designers designed it?

It does appear to me that you want a fun, exciting and competitive game, but only if it's fun, exciting and competitive in the way you wish to play.  Sort of like showing up at my house to play Monopoly and I declare 1) I get the ship and; 2) the ship gets $800 every time it passes "Go".  It's my house, my rules!   I suspect we wouldn't be playing Monopoly at your house under those conditions would we?  Now if we wanted to change the rules by which we were playing we could do so.  Nothing to stop us.  But we would, if we were reasonable and civil people, discuss the changes first and insure they were fair to all players, right?.  In Illy the situation is more complex but the social playing of the game is based upon the same basic principle that you don't stack the deck for one player over another without consent of those playing the game. 

I'm glad you noticed the permission/right distinction.  Unfortunately, permission implies the right of the granter to extend a right to the receiver.  That's what permission does, provided the granter of permission has the right to do so.  That is the dispute of which we are speaking.  So, to clarify and perhaps some bad wording of my own, if there was any, "Permission" is a process of granting a right.  A "right" is something you've been granted by somebody.  I think the game grants us the right to settle where we will as long as it's 10 squares from other settlements.  You think players can and ought to grant themselves the right to take my right from me...the right the game give me.  Land claims usurp the right to settle where I will granted by the game designers.  Thus, the war we are having is to safeguard a right the game has already given us.  I hope no you can see the relationship between "permission" and "right."  You want land claimers to have the right to deny my right to settle where I wish, a right granted by the game itself, I want to maintain my right to settle where I wish.

"Can you show me proof that i have intimidated anyone in an IGM, PM or sent military/diplo action at any other player due to our land claim? "  Are you kidding?  This from Dictionary.com: Intimidation: "to force into or deter from some action by inducing fear."  Hopefully you won't be denying the basic definition as it is sort of pointless to argue with the dictionary.  In any case, does your proclamation of a land claim "deter" people from settling in your land claim area?  At least one, me.  It deters me because you imply you will not be giving me permission and it deters others as they do not know if you will or will not and thus, it would be a risk to even ask.  Why am I deterred?  Because I'm a small player without the resources to resist being "removed."  You see two words there: "deter" and "fear."  My fear is the result of being deterred by your statements.  That's intimidation.  Any questions?  (And if I'm deterred so will be and probably are, others).  Sadly, there's your proof, if you will take it.

"i dont really think you would make a good neighbor."  Why is that?  Have you asked any of my current neighbors, some of whom are pro land claim (or at least within the alliance and area of that alliances land claim) if I'm a good neighbor?  Have I thieved any of them?  Have I harvested within the 10 squares of their cities?  I have to admit that I have made a mistake or two in this, but every time I offer to make amends and do so with friendliness.  So what's your evidence I wouldn't be a good neighbor?  It appears to me that you not only require a person to do all the right things if they are to be a good neighbor, but to think all the right things as well.  Ideological tyranny is even worse, I think, than land claims.  One quoting Tolstoy should know this.  Alexandr Solzhenitsyn said in one of his essays about such totalitarian idealism, "Silencing debate, no doubt, is one of the most painful things a society can do itself."  But if you have sovereignty over your area I guess that too, could be a consequence.  

You quote STOMP who said:

"Prior to engaging in military action, STOMP, warned their leadership of our course of action, sending 2 igms and waiting for a reply which to this date has not arrived. Hence, the war declaration and we march forth." 

I once receive an "ultimatum."  I did not reply.  They then attacked.  Did I think they attacked because I didn't reply or because I didn't submit?  Which do you think? 

But of course, you haven't yet answered my question have you?

I repeat it here: If the players of Illy are real people, how should they be treated? 

Do address this for me as I would love to see how you think people should be treated when playing a game together.  I'm sure it will be an interesting read.

AJ