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Mr Damage View Drop Down
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Points: 598 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2013 at 08:05
System> ** News Flash: The Siege of Goodison belonging to Rupe [Soon™] by Rasak [T-O]has begun

Gee I remember Soup copping flack for attacking without declaring, must be okay in reverse.
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Hora View Drop Down
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Points: 839 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2013 at 09:34
Kumo, thanks for your honest and informative post.

Though I'm not part of this war, here are my two cents on this:

There's a big difference between what seems good for the game, and what each person wants for themselves.

Yes, wars are a important factor to this game but most alliances don't want to be in it... 
the sad part is, that almost all wars in Illy are onesided, means one alliance has fun fighting it (usually the better prepared one declaring/provocing it), the other one doesn't and wants to keep harm from their cities (which equal a huge load of lifetime or even money).

Another aspect to all this wars is the forum... suddenly everyone is bending facts to near break (or sometimes far beyond), and most threads don't survive long until Luna has to go down on them because of RL politics (or insulting, as soon as discussion has reached a critical point). Yes, the discussions are fun at start, but tend to turn annoying pretty fast, as noone can rely on the parts of truth the other one believes in, not even the parts of truth people on your side believe in...

There had been attempts of forming war alliances, which BOTH declare to have fun in fighting... but they didn't work, as noone of the ones prepared for war actually wants to fight another person prepared for war... no easy targets, no forum slander, where's the fun?

So you'll end up with always one side celebrating it as free fun play in a sandbox (usually the attacker), and the other side complaining about bullying. This is one of the first times, when suddenly this swings round to the "war is fun" side to call it bullying, hampering their idea of the game... who is right?

This is a question without right or wrong... either way one side complains and wants aid for their cause... and mostly gets it.

There's a sharp line... H? did fight White for being aggresive => result: more peaceful server, less forum garbage. 
Now many alliances fight NC for playing aggressive... is it the same? Is it another kind of aggressive? Would the restriction of NC by so many alliances result in a boring server, or is it necessary limits, an example for not annoying too many alliances at once?

As a third option: staying out of those wars... is it better, worse?

I don't have an universal answer to this, and I fear noone has. Everyone has unique ideas on it, and the discussions (disguised in huge load of propaganda) fill many many pages in this forums...

Good luck to anyone finding a good way... but in the end, it's nothing to be planned or predicted, and Illyriad so far did good, compared to other games...
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Redfist View Drop Down
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Points: 91 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2013 at 10:38
The opening post comes close the information that I have had some time  concerning the activities of TVM, NC and sections of the H? leadership.

Like Dark , others who thought that H? were their allies  will come to realise that is not the way that  H? perceives them at all. 


Edited by Redfist - 31 Oct 2013 at 10:40
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Tordenkaffen View Drop Down
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Points: 821 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2013 at 12:06
Why was all of this never preemptively sorted out between the alliances? Out of the half server that has now declared war on NC, surely it would be posible to find a matching number of opponents to give NC their much awaited war, instead of this bs where friends write to you and express their anxiousness at being placed into war with old friends, neighbours and people you haver never had anything but pleasant discourse with.

To Halcyon - many in your own alliance feel they have no lot in this war and are merely pawns in a chessgame. This war is unfair to them as well as your allies who have always had your back, all of which you stab in the back with this maneuver.

I respect your viewpoint and your right to retain it, I really do, and I would wish this business could have been solved diplomatically, but I dare say that if you are so righteous in your crusade against NC as you let on, you had instead of declaring war, joined another alliance at war with NC for the duration of the war, not dragged a lot of people into this debaucle against their will.

This ordeal is just unfair to a lot of people I find.


Edited by Tordenkaffen - 31 Oct 2013 at 12:11
"FYI - if you had any balls you'd be posting under your in-game name." - KP
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KillerPoodle View Drop Down
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Points: 1853 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2013 at 12:39
Originally posted by Mr Damage Mr Damage wrote:

System> ** News Flash: The Siege of Goodison belonging to Rupe [Soon™] by Rasak [T-O]has begun

Gee I remember Soup copping flack for attacking without declaring, must be okay in reverse.


Firstly, lol at "Soup".  Secondly, I don't think anyone whined on the coalition side, I think it was Consone doing the whining.

Post a link and prove me wrong.
"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM

"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill
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Aristeas View Drop Down
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Points: 77 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2013 at 12:47
As a neutral and outside person, I was totally able to follow H? argumentation on why they declared on EE, but I am totally puzzled as to why H? can be suprised about the anger over NC, and more so how could they have kept NC as an ally and still do so. Consone was bad due to pushing others around cause they had so many/big allies in their back, and that is exactly that what NC did since the war, without H? in the back doing anything against it (ok with me) or ending their alliance (there I can´t follow it anymore). Even now H? seems to have their hands over them and instead of aknowleding misdeeds by NC and distantiating themselves from them.

As far as I can tell, there are 2 "bad" guys, but funnily one on every side still backed by alliances and confeds, because they can, very effectivly, push the guilt to the other side. As long as neither the feeble revenge-seekers in EE/vCrow or NC aren´t sorted out, I can´t see how the involved parties can get to a peaceful solution, because both have valid points. But as H? fames itself with behaviour in favour of the climate here in Illy (and at least I still buy that), I can´t see why they don´t have the greatness to step aside from their misbehaving ally (like for example mCrow with regards to the involved other crows)...
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KillerPoodle View Drop Down
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Points: 1853 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2013 at 13:53
You post is a very good example of a discussion I recently had with Angrim in GC about the value of arguing in GC.

When you have one side of a disagreement who are very vocal in GC and forums and you have another side who are not, the argument which supports the former is heard much more often and the collective conscious of the game perceives that argument as "the truth" regardless of it's actual accuracy.  It's a direct example of "If you say it often enough, people will believe it".

NC did not used to participate in GC banter and forum warfare unless forced and as a result the side which paints them in a bad light is the one everyone "knows". 

It is true that NC is happy to go to war to support their position sooner than most when diplomatic failures occur and sure enough many folk who dislike war automatically assume that makes them bad guys and diss them in GC (E.g. Rill) even when they have no skin in the game and only a hazy view on the details of a particular issue. This enhances the effect described above so that most people's perception of the guys who don't talk as much in GC is slanted.

It's interesting that you mention the mCrow, but fail to see that this is a supporting example of how the situation is as I have described above - E.g. not nearly as black and white as some would paint it.
"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM

"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill
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Kumomoto View Drop Down
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Points: 2224 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2013 at 14:01
And Binky-- while number of players isn't everything, as you said, there is a hard limit on 10 cities/acct and on how much you can produce per city. That means that 40 accts have the capability of producing twice as much as twenty. That's not meaningless.
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twilights View Drop Down
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Points: 915 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2013 at 14:56
all this talk is just silly, this is a strategy game...we are suppose to have conflict. just because the top alliance does not like the overwelming odds it is facing they are complaining what is happening...u dont see nc saying anything but playing the game. alot of us were shocked at the demands placed on the consone group to surrender and all these decisions were made by top harm leadership...they were too personal, something that should never be placed on fellow players in a game...harm made its bed, they have threaten and tried to control the game too long...they will have to fight to maintain that position or lose that power...come down to the illy earth with the rest of us....oh by the way remember its a silly game and this message is all in fun...wiggles her behind at harm and nc and now the dlords!   run and hide or move to a neutral alliance...we coming to get ur things! wiggles her behind
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Ander View Drop Down
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Points: 1269 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2013 at 15:00
Originally posted by Aristeas Aristeas wrote:

Consone was bad due to pushing others around cause they had so many/big allies in their back, and that is exactly that what NC did since the war, without H? in the back doing anything against it (ok with me) or ending their alliance (there I can´t follow it anymore). Even now H? seems to have their hands over them and instead of aknowleding misdeeds by NC and distantiating themselves from them.

Dear Aristeas, there were no incidents of consone pushing anyone around. 

That is why H agents forcefully occupied our allied mines 2 squares away from their city and blew it up to a war. We were declared upon by H for the crime of breaking RHY sieges on our cities. 

If there were any real incidents of consone bullying, H would have used that instead of such a lame excuse.

Since I started playing, this is the third time H gets engaged in war with the second ranking alliance. I am not sure of the causes of this war, but it appears to me as more of a reaction to the politics of H than anything to with NC. 

Edited for typo


Edited by Ander - 31 Oct 2013 at 15:04
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