Where's the Good Versus Evil?

((Sample 01 - A Warcraft alignment Chart - Notice how the orc images are listed for Neutral Good and Lawful neutral >.>))

((And of course Sample 02 - a Warhammer 40K alignment chart!))

The author R.R Martin deals with some of these issues, although he hasn't introduced the classic races into his world as of yet, he has set a world up where almost ever person has good and bad in him/her (yes even Cercei) In his world its more about shades of grey and points of view, possibly with the exeption of some of the Stark characters.
Many of the new-ish fantasy authors play with the "ethics" of fantasy, in the Drizzt books you often see sadistic or overeager or predujiced people treating all races which are different from them selves with disdain and scorn. Humans killing elves so they can plant farms where the forest is and elves killing humans to protect the forest.
So although Tolkien is a classic setting, it's not by a longshot the only setting nor the only way to write. For my money LOTR is a very poorly written series and very boring as well as the characters has no "flesh", no substance, where as much of the newer fantasy strives to make the characters believeable instead of archetypes of all good or all evil personas.

glorfindel wrote: Like I said before, the community is more like a post-war community. To use LOTR-centered theory, it's like we occupy the Middle Earth after Sauron and the ring are vanquished. Yet, at the same time, players can choose to be Orcs, who are decidedly evil (can anyone find an example in other Literature where Orcs or Orc-like creatures are forces of good? Or even neutral for that matter?

There are many and varied examples of Orcs being non-"evil" in the fantasy genre. The orc in WoW is one of them, and they have issued a number of fantasy books set in their world. To take a more classic example AD&D has 2 campaignsettings I can think of of the top of my head which presents a non-"evil" orc: Forgotten Realms and Darksun. In the Darksun campaign they even went as far as making a race of desertdwelling, cannabalistic elves. Hows that for classic fantasy races?

glorfindel wrote: Second -- and I have a feeling that I'm going to open up another can of worms here -- but I think that the fact that the community here is somewhat tilted to being Uk/European players, I think that the post-war mentality that still permeates European cultures is ascribed here. Europe, after all, suffered horribly from war in the 20th century. WWI was called "The Great War" and "The War To End All Wars," because people could not ever imagine humanity entering into another war that horrible. Then, WWII comes along and is a hundred times worse. Millions of people killed, wounded, maimed -- and then all of the destruction.  It left a lasting impression, and I think the effects are still felt in the current generations there. This is why Europe has become decreasingly demilitarized over the decades and has a decreasing willingness -- and capability -- to fight wars. It is completely understandable, considering what Europe has been through. And I would argue that Japan has a similar condition, thanks to having had nuclear bombs dropped on them. As a result, I think that some players -- perhaps subconsciously -- are trying to model this sphere into a post-war world. It's just a theory, though -- I'm not saying I'm "right." What do you think?

I do not believe this to be true in the slightest. If this were true then violent game and movie sales in Europe and Asia would be a fraction of what they were. Also the fact that France and England stepped up and took charge of the whole Libya affair (or at least tried to) speaks against this.
Also, if it were true then there would be no way that so many countries in Europe could sustain a volounteer army. This sort of mindset you would have to go back to the 50s and 60s to find, and even there you would be in trouble due to the whole Korea war and Vietnam war which also involved several European countries.
Lastly, not every country in Europa had the same experience. Some countries, like Denmark and Sweden were hardly touched while others like Germany, Poland, Ukraine, and Belorussia were devastated, in Polands case several times. In any event, this is to answer your theory, not to open up for an argument about WW2. So any who read this, please stay on topic

glorfindel wrote: P.S. -- Just to add: I really do love the game. To me, it's more of an interesting academic discussion about how the community is developing here, and how the game could be improved. But all in all, I love the concept. :-)

We are glad you do, that you all do, and please keep debating the game, it stirs the pot and forces us to "defend" our work, and thus re-examining it which we learn a lot by.

As always, keep ideas and suggestions comming, that's how we make Illyriad the greatest game around, player involvement.

Sincerely Gromsh



Edited by Gromsh - 08 Sep 2011 at 22:15