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Brids17
Postmaster General
Joined: 30 Jul 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1483
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Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 02:55 |
Kumomoto wrote:
I think this game could benefit from a sort of gentlemen's agreement that wars are fun and alliances will conduct them without every one of them having to be a moral crusade. (Although those do exist occasionally, and rightly so). Sorry to stir the pot up, but I think this is a GREAT topic for the community to discuss...
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I always though it would be cool if two alliances set up an agreement to go to war but not use siege or destructive diplos (assassins, sabs, theives) and just kind of go until one alliance was spent. Not even for like a "losing alliance has to pay X" or anything like that, just simply doing it for the sake of having fun. Lately I've considered making a thread looking for someone to do something like that but on a one on one scale, though I keep putting it off in favour of getting that 9th city first.
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Llyorn Of Jaensch
Postmaster
Joined: 31 Mar 2010
Location: Sydney
Status: Offline
Points: 924
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Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 03:00 |
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On behalf of Harmless I wish to espouse our policy on the relevant topic....
.... ..... ......
........ 'Nutz!'
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"ouch...best of luck." HonoredMule
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Kumomoto
Postmaster General
Joined: 19 Oct 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2224
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Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 03:01 |
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There's no reason why the community can't support something like that...
Perhaps there's an "Bond" that both alliances make where they state the extent to which they will destroy each other... (ie. no more than 2 cities per player) that, if both sides are willing to commit to, the community can enforce...
(anyway... probably stupidity, as the most serious wars may be to the death...)
But having a community that seriously frowns on that will stop a ton of it!
Edited by Kumomoto - 06 Oct 2011 at 14:54
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Qaal
Wordsmith
Joined: 29 Jan 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 115
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Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 03:21 |
I think I sort of feel like I might disagree with construing Illy as a war game. (Feeling very certain about this issue, eh?) I think Illy is more of a society game--the interesting part of it to me is the community and culture that develops about the game. I see war, violence, theft as sort of organic parts of that, options that add interest and dimension. It's all good to set up military exercises--Illy tournaments, player-sponsored tournaments, genial skirmishes based on mutual understanding--but war by its nature will spring from the ebb and flow of relationships within the community. And that ebb and flow is beyond the grasp of artificial engagements.
One thing about war in Illy (and similar games) that really does bother me is the ability of a larger player to simply zero out a smaller one. But I think the controls on that need to be an organic part of the game. I think the open-endedness of Illy (no endgame) is really positive in that regard because it cuts out some of the motivation for getting rid of a potential rival. But there could be more structure in place. For example, military campaigns often crush the economy of the combatants. So maybe setting up a siege could crush the resource production of the aggressor, making it difficult to sustain the siege and resulting in the player launching the siege losing ground against the community baseline. Of course, that might relegate sieges to the very few largest players with the resources and willingness (bitterness?) to deal with price.
Tough balance to strike.
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Meagh
Forum Warrior
Joined: 16 Jul 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 224
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Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 03:31 |
cities have the ability to move now. I think the community should use it. The community could set up safety zones where any attacking or warfare is prohibited. You could use these safety zones for people who either don't want to participate in any battle or who want a temporary reprieve. I could imagine the island of Trome being used for this purpose..
Another option, for those that fall on the wrong side of the community, is to create a zone for banishment. Imagine when someone is defeated they are banished to the wasteland for instance. You could even have the strong players create a border force to make sure they don't cross over into more civilized areas that would affect the larger community. This would help prevent the all-or-nothing aspect of Illy warfare where players get sieged out of the game. And this is really an unfortunate aspect to the game because frankly, without people like StJude who stir things up the forums and our sandbox in general would be a very boring place. - M.
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Kumomoto
Postmaster General
Joined: 19 Oct 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2224
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Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 03:34 |
Qaal-- I disagree. I think the game should avoid making different rules based upon alliances (or players') actions... This is a sandbox. It is what we make of it. Even if we make it terribly, terribly wrong... it is what we make it!
Edited by Kumomoto - 06 Oct 2011 at 03:35
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Kumomoto
Postmaster General
Joined: 19 Oct 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2224
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Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 03:37 |
Meagh wrote:
cities have the ability to move now. I think the community should use it. The community could set up safety zones where any attacking or warfare is prohibited. You could use these safety zones for people who either don't want to participate in any battle or who want a temporary reprieve. I could imagine the island of Trome being used for this purpose..
Another option, for those that fall on the wrong side of the community, is to create a zone for banishment. Imagine when someone is defeated they are banished to the wasteland for instance. You could even have the strong players create a border force to make sure they don't cross over into more civilized areas that would affect the larger community. This would help prevent the all-or-nothing aspect of Illy warfare where players get sieged out of the game. And this is really an unfortunate aspect to the game because frankly, without people like StJude who stir things up the forums and our sandbox in general would be a very boring place. - M. |
Wow! I think that's actually a really fun, original idea...
So... instead of annihilating someone, you give them 24 hours to relocate to the "Bleak Lands"... a de facto exile... from which they are free to plot grow, etc... to return... fun!
(this thread is getting better and better)
Edited by Kumomoto - 06 Oct 2011 at 03:38
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Rill
Postmaster General
Player Council - Geographer
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6903
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Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 03:39 |
Meagh wrote:
cities have the ability to move now. I think the community should use it. The community could set up safety zones where any attacking or warfare is prohibited. You could use these safety zones for people who either don't want to participate in any battle or who want a temporary reprieve. I could imagine the island of Trome being used for this purpose..
Another option, for those that fall on the wrong side of the community, is to create a zone for banishment. Imagine when someone is defeated they are banished to the wasteland for instance. You could even have the strong players create a border force to make sure they don't cross over into more civilized areas that would affect the larger community. This would help prevent the all-or-nothing aspect of Illy warfare where players get sieged out of the game. And this is really an unfortunate aspect to the game because frankly, without people like StJude who stir things up the forums and our sandbox in general would be a very boring place. - M. |
If the "zones" were scattered throughout Illy, this could work. If the "zones" were limited to the periphery or one particular area, there would be problems for folks like Ryelle who want to be able to help the newbs -- although these problems might be resolved by Trade v2
The biggest problem I see is getting the "warriors" who already inhabit those zones to agree to move -- what would motivate them.
As an alternative, perhaps the devs could implement a "peace" flag (simple graphic with no underlying function) to indicate to folks that it was a peacenik. Another alternative would be a hard-coded "peace" status that would make a player immune from attack but also unable to take certain actions -- as either a permanent or very long-term status. I'm not convinced hard-coding is the right answer, though.
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Qaal
Wordsmith
Joined: 29 Jan 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 115
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Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 03:43 |
Kumomoto wrote:
Qaal-- I disagree. I think the game should avoid making different rules based upon alliances (or players') actions... This is a sandbox. It is what we make of it. Even if we make it terribly, terribly wrong... it is what we make it!
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Kumo--the thought about the add difficulties of a siege is more one of bringing in-game sieges in line with real-world military action. Of course sieges have rules that apply to all. The only question is how are those rules most fairly balanced. I don't think we need to stand pat on the existing rules. There may well be ideas out there that will enhance the game.
With regard to Illy being what we make of it, I couldn't possibly agree more. That is very much the spirit of the first paragraph of my post: war is organic part of the community and the relationships that ebb and flow within it. There was nothing in there to suggest otherwise.
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Kumomoto
Postmaster General
Joined: 19 Oct 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2224
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Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 04:07 |
Well... I guess the most interesting conversations are how, or if, we, as a community, try to "balance" anything... And if so, how...?
Edited by Kumomoto - 06 Oct 2011 at 04:07
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