whaever

There are many interesting posts in this thread . A credit to the Illy Community.

The debate about the necessity of war in this sandbox setting and has been ongoing since the early days of the game (does anyone remember Ivorich von Forge ).

I would like to throw a number of points into the discussion which I think are important :

1. Uk1 is finite and it seems set to continue for the forseeable future;

2. Consequently Illy has a significant number of players who have been here since the developmental days of Uk1 and have amassed large cities (armies,resources etc) which are unlikely to matched by any incoming newbe;

3. The power that these players exert has a very significant effect on the game to the extent that they have become Super Elites distinct from later incomers;

4. Within the sandbox context these elites have created a culture where the achievement of status and success has become one of the most foremost drivers of the game. To many in Illyriad it is so important that it transcends the narrative and codex of the game itself;

5. In this sandbox setting it has given rise to an informal but highly significant form of patronage where Elite players (either as alliances or individuals) can exercise significant sway over the opinions and aims of incoming players

6. I believe that we have just seen an example of a clash of elites which although painted in other terms was driven by maintaining status and achievement ( crudely put King of the Hill)

The main form of conflict centred a round the "achievement of status" however is not military, which is secondary. It is diplomatic - involving social networking and, pvp etc. Conflict remains inevitable in this context as one side seeks to enhance it's status by attempting to invalidate the achievements of its opponent and this, as we have seen, can lead to significant conflicts within the game

War then will always be a part of this setting, so long as the sandbox ethic and the finite setting of Uk1 continue. Having created and maintained Elites it promotes a cultural driver based on status anxiety and acquisition which leads to, sometimes, highly personalised conflicts which become more important to the players than the game itself.

Kumo,

The_Dude wrote: Kumo, I think we should have a Forum Thread where aggressive alliances can publicly announce that they are interested having limited wars with other aggressive alliances.  Then they know who they are and they are free to have their wars all they want without the rest of us getting peed on. I have suggested this many times.  There is even an old forum thread I started many months ago for this.  I also posed several ideas for conduct of those wars. However, StJude has told me that this is not fun to him.  He thinks it much more fun to attack those that do not want war.  It is, to him, a War Game.  And do not stand his way for his use of the sandbox on his terms.  OK.  There are a zillion other MMOs that offer that experience for StJude.  Illyriad is different, though. My view is simple: Your right to enjoy the sandbox ends where someone else's cities begin.

this idea is not so fancy
war is NOT a thing to do in a friendly way. 
alliances have to figure out how to "survive" in illy whit their own skills.
may be peace loving people, may devious alliances,  they have to find their own way, and Play as they see fit.
what you propose is an abomination, the ultimate crippling of free game will.

edited



Edited by Kilotov of DokGthung - 06 Oct 2011 at 15:42

StJude wrote: Kilotov of DokGthung wrote: newbie warfare is utterly pointless  Sorry Kilotov, I completely 100% disagree. Ask Geofrey, I know he got some fun from the whole deal as did Baughb, Meganips and I.   I bet if you ask Demdigs he would also agree. We had a lot of fun back in those early days.

Warfare is fun. Especially newbie warfare when neither side can send sieges, and when every resource is valuable. Every newbie should get a little action in early, before they get too big and get all serious. It will keep them playing the game longer, once they realize how enjoyable combat can be.

That said, Not fun is when two newbies are going at it, and someone with a huge population decides to step in and say "knock it off, or else!" 

war happens when someone has something to go against another.