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Topic ClosedWay to nice community-problem for the future

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Attila the Hun View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Way to nice community-problem for the future
    Posted: 07 Apr 2011 at 23:05
NOTICE: before anyone reads on, note that i am not screaming for someone to attack me or use hostile diplomatic action against me. This is simply an observation made in the past few months.

This community is nice as a whole, but the protections go on way to much. Wether it be newbie protection or alliance protection, it is becoming increasingly harder for players to attack someone else without fear of 40 other people joining in and crushing the op poser.

This is one of the reasons the factions are being brought into play, so people can actually use their armies without fear of the above^ incidents.

As of right now this game is purely a level up your city and socialize game, thus the reason many people have left this game.

That's all I have to say right now as my head has done a brain fart. I await the user comments.
It's just a game. :)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2011 at 23:20
ATH - If you want a war...How many times have I said this...Post a Request for a War Partner, set out your terms and conditions, and see if you can get a enemy to fight.
 
Otherwise, it sounds like you are complaining that you can't find someone weaker than you to beat up on.  Interesting how no one likes fights that they might lose.
 
Yes, some people get bored and leave Illy.  That is NOT Illy's problem.  That is simply a case of Illy not fulfilling certain people's entertainment goals.  Illy can not be everything to everyone.  However, if the Staff felt that Illy was suffering a declining player-base, I am certain that they would modify Illy to satisfy the gamer market.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2011 at 23:23
NOTICE: before anyone reads on, note that i am not screaming for someone to attack me or use hostile diplomatic action against me. This is simply an observation made in the past few months.

and im not blaming illy, im blaming the community, ive been in allainces where they have  a few dozen naps and a dozen or so confeds, and those allainces to which are confeded have a nother few dozen.



It's just a game. :)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2011 at 23:27
For those that go "go pick on someone your own size" no one smart does that. no one  historically has done that, its not practical. All this newbie friendly environment also allows a smaller player to insult larger withotu fear of siege. I can speak in the past of when i have done that and with JR shortly after he made my logo and we started disliking each other.
It's just a game. :)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2011 at 23:30
Originally posted by The_Dude The_Dude wrote:

Interesting how no one likes fights that they might lose.


As it's been said before, it has more to due with the price for losing, which is often all your cities and sometimes, all your research and less about losing in itself. 

Originally posted by The_Dude The_Dude wrote:

That is simply a case of Illy not fulfilling certain people's entertainment goals.  Illy can not be everything to everyone.


True but when I game boasts large numbers of miltitary and diplo units and tons of military strategy, it makes one wonder what the point of it all is. Illyriad is largely focused on being a strategic war game. That might not be all it is but it's certainly a large part of it, so it's rather unfortunate that said part of the game is so rarely utilized and so difficult to use without risking utter destruction on your end.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2011 at 23:51
These are two separate issues. 

Attacking new players is not something I am willing to tolerate at all, it is downright cowardly and it damages the game. I will attack any such bullies and enjoy doing it.

As far as the second point, that people are unwilling to attack anyone for fear of reprisals, this is simply not happening. There are conflicts all over Illyriad and most of them stay small. Even the recent conflict between DB and CHAMP,  when all was said and done, was, for the most  part, just a small war between two alliances. That was in spite of a lot of talking posturing and shouting on the forums. Although the possibility of escalation is real, I just  do not see it not happening.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2011 at 23:53
B17 - I disagree that Illy is largely focused on being a strategic war game.
 
However, if it is, then certainly the politics and confeds and alliances are inseparable from the strategic choice of War or Peace.
 
One more time...anybody that wants a war and wants to restrict the victory conditions to something less than complete destruction, I think this can be negotiated in advance - in essence making a private tournament.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2011 at 00:43
Originally posted by The_Dude The_Dude wrote:

B17 - I disagree that Illy is largely focused on being a strategic war game.
 
However, if it is, then certainly the politics and confeds and alliances are inseparable from the strategic choice of War or Peace.


9 out of 25 building are completely focused on making military units, defending against them or building advanced resources with the only purpose being to make military units. 4 more are arguably focused on mostly miltiary units as well.

8 out of 12 advanced resources are used for building military units. The other 4 play a very large part in building military units and have limited uses for non-aggressive units.

When the game was originally released, if I recall there was not even a global chat or alliance chat, this would hurt the argument that Illyriad was made with the intention of being a social game.

Out of the 18 different resources that can be traded none of them are solely based on non-aggressive building. 8 of the 18 resources however, are used solely for building military units and have no other use in regards to building.

Quote Illyriad has vast depth: hundreds of military units, 200-plus technologies, and dozens of available strategies from theft and assassination to sieges, trade, magic, quests -- and we add content on a weekly basis. It's a big sandbox world and possibly a daunting one for a new player


A quote from Stormcrow from the review. All that vast depth and yet the only thing he mentioned that wasn't purely military based was the quests and the magic, which might I add two of the three schools of magic are focused on protect from military or harming players.

There are no advanced resources used to build special buildings that are non-aggressively focused. There is no managing your people, they are simply heavily tied with food, the more food consumption the more people. You don't need to keep them happy or build things keep them loyal, they are simply there as a number.  They have no depth, no emotions, no complaints. This game has nothing that would make it similar to sim city or peaceful city building games with the exception of it having buildings. Illyriad at best could be regarded as a very shallow city building game.


The marketplace as I said is mostly centralized around trading items meant for building armies and again, could be regarded as a very shallow economic game.

 The game also features very basic mechanics that allow for interacts but ultimately lacks private messaging, a friends list and block list and various other mechanics that would be expected in a game centralized around interacting with other players. Even the forums are lack luster and the GMs have stated they don't believe in working on the forums because then they're not working on the game.

The main focus is military in Illyriad. Military has the most depth and if you were to build a game that had only either the military, trading, interacting or city building mechanics in it, while each other them would be lacking, the military one would have the best chance of standing on it's own. Illyriad is a strategic war game.

It's not to say that I don't enjoy trading with other players or posting on the forums or chatting with people or building up my cities but these features are very simplistic and it should be fairly obvious the focus was not on them.

End rant...

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lorre View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2011 at 01:02
the game is set by the communety i think
the communety dislikes bullies 
its true alot of the res is for warfare but there are enough games out there when u start out you get attacked and destroyed in the first few months of the game thats cause the big players do so and can conquer and conquer (as much they want?) making the fsastest way to grow to kill other players here we need a requiered number of poulation before we can even think of sieiging someone and even then the city has to be pretty big if u want a reasonably decent city when u conquered it 
in other games u usually tae over hte city with all its buildings and tech and u can go back to building up your army and conquer the next city just to be nr1
the need is not here the communety doesnt allow bullieng wich is great in my oppinion
The battlefield is a scene of constant chaos. The winner will be the one who controls that chaos, both his own and the enemies.
Napoleon Bonaparte
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2011 at 01:02
B17 - Every economy must protect itself from potential threats to that economy.  That does not mean that battles are the focus of Illy.  But, human nature being what it is, if you put a shive in enough hands, someone is gonna stab someone else.  Why are most prison gangs not rioting at any given time? 
 
Fighting has a cost.  The benefits must justify the cost.  In Illy war has a cost.  That makes it interesting.  Offense means overcoming the cost imposed by your enemy.  Defense means creating more cost than the enemy is willing to bear.  This is the strategic aspect of Illy.
 
Separately from the loss of units and cities in war, Illy war is hugely complicated to orchestrate on a significant scale in a skilled way.  That requires a lot of player time to plan, coordinate and execute.  This is the most precious gamer element in Illy.  This asset has to be carefully marshalled to prevent a campaign from falling to pieces as a result of player fatigue.
 
There is a cost to a real war.  I encourage player created tournaments with terms and conditions agreed to in advance.  This controls the cost while allowing "bragging rights" benefits.  Gold could also be escrowed with a neutral player to be given to the victor at the conclusion.
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