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Deranzin 
Postmaster
Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 845
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 Topic: War talk - let's move it here
Posted: 18 Oct 2013 at 09:30 |
 Grego wrote:
With all due respect, NC is not that effective in their purge :P
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Hehehe ... a good point indeed ... Which is another indication that the motto is more for roleplaying than anything else ... 
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Sisren
Forum Warrior
Joined: 03 Feb 2012
Location: PA, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 446
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Posted: 18 Oct 2013 at 01:06 |
Angrim wrote:
Sisren wrote:
The fact that NC DID intervene showed CK leadership that Bullying isn't ok... and impressed the need to talk it through?
Now imagine if they had started by talking, instead of sieging... what horrors of war would have been unleashed then? |
this won't be a very popular viewpoint, but regular forum readers will have noticed that i have a few of those.
what if NC's action does not show CK that bullying isn't OK, but rather shows them that bullying is practiced by even larger alliances, and that if they want to be consequential in illyriad they will need to get better at it? it's not as though one has to regret one's behaviour to realise that being attacked by one of illyriad's most effective military organisations is a situation worth negotiating, and it's not as though NC engaged in lengthy appeals before declaring war, attempting to reason with them or talk them down...CK was given four hours to explain themselves, iirc, and no recourse to avoid NC's declaration.
i believe, perhaps foolishly, that NC thinks it's doing good in this--specifically, that NC expects that CK will learn something by being treated like they have treated others. i'm sure they will learn something. but perhaps not the lesson hoped for.
(edited to fix the misattributed quote tag)
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Angrim, you and I don't always agree. But I always respect your counter-points, including this one - even though it doesn't usually show through that way.
I guess the question becomes, who is really acting benevolently in something that seems to be expanding? Honoring a Confed is one thing, and it is something that should be respected.
I am with you on this one, I do think NC intended to do good in this one. There seems to be hardly anything to gain in helping RE, right? Load up NC, RE and xCKx on the Strategic map... too far out for a strategic benefit. Nothing to benefit but potentially a mitzvah usually = benevolence.
Maybe I am too old and too tired...
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Angrim
Postmaster General
Joined: 02 Nov 2011
Location: Laoshin
Status: Offline
Points: 1173
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Posted: 17 Oct 2013 at 23:30 |
Sisren wrote:
The fact that NC DID intervene showed CK leadership that Bullying isn't ok... and impressed the need to talk it through?
Now imagine if they had started by talking, instead of sieging... what horrors of war would have been unleashed then? |
this won't be a very popular viewpoint, but regular forum readers will have noticed that i have a few of those. what if NC's action does not show CK that bullying isn't OK, but rather shows them that bullying is practiced by even larger alliances, and that if they want to be consequential in illyriad they will need to get better at it? it's not as though one has to regret one's behaviour to realise that being attacked by one of illyriad's most effective military organisations is a situation worth negotiating, and it's not as though NC engaged in lengthy appeals before declaring war, attempting to reason with them or talk them down...CK was given four hours to explain themselves, iirc, and no recourse to avoid NC's declaration. i believe, perhaps foolishly, that NC thinks it's doing good in this--specifically, that NC expects that CK will learn something by being treated like they have treated others. i'm sure they will learn something. but perhaps not the lesson hoped for. (edited to fix the misattributed quote tag)
Edited by Angrim - 18 Oct 2013 at 00:32
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Sisren
Forum Warrior
Joined: 03 Feb 2012
Location: PA, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 446
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Posted: 17 Oct 2013 at 23:29 |
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Hum...misquoted twice...
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Grego
Postmaster
Joined: 09 May 2010
Location: Klek
Status: Offline
Points: 729
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Posted: 17 Oct 2013 at 18:31 |
With all due respect, NC is not that effective in their purge :P
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twilights
Postmaster
Joined: 21 May 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 915
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Posted: 17 Oct 2013 at 18:22 |
its amazing how many different alliances u can be in with perma sitting...probably three of those involved were attacking themselves....how is that called war? oh wait i war with myself all the time...especially when it comes to bfs.....hes a jerk but hes gib...whatever should i do? 
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Deranzin
Postmaster
Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 845
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Posted: 17 Oct 2013 at 17:45 |
Prares wrote:
[QUOTE=Sisren]
Nice that NC alliance motto is removing heretics from the game since 2012. How does that compare to a minor punitive action against local provocations as far as you're concerned? |
Won't go into the facts analysis because I am ignorant of them, but I just wanted to note that comparing roleplaying mottos with actual deeds, is not really a good comparison. That there are no actual "heretics" in the game should have been a good tip on that.
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Prares
New Poster
Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Location: Sydney, AU
Status: Offline
Points: 39
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Posted: 17 Oct 2013 at 14:52 |
Sisren wrote:
Prares wrote:
CK and RE are currently in truce mode (and talking) which has lasted for 5 days so far. The whole small thing would have been over in 4 days had NC not intervened. |
Except for that whole...what was it again... complete destruction? Or do you mean that given the size differences that CK would have completely crushed RE by then?
OR, and this is just a thought... The fact that NC DID intervene showed CK leadership that Bullying isn't ok... and impressed the need to talk it through?
Now imagine if they had started by talking, instead of sieging... what horrors of war would have been unleashed then?
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Sisren, there have been no CK sieges against RE (nor have there been any plans to do so stymied by NC's declaration)
War was declared by CK against them because that's the honourable thing to do if you're going to be attacking another alliance concertedly- as Torden said "informing the community". Another bigger alliance attacked us and didn't have the courage to put their name to it; at least NC did, though they just took the opportunity to do what they were going to anyway I think.
Your reliance on an internal CK alliance gee-up message delivered to you through a spy has led you astray. The word used that has you fussing was "eliminate" -
1) every single RE account? impossible, 2) the RE alliance as an entity? totally impractical, 3) an ongoing threat by multi-accounts to our members' growth? the aim of the exercise which has led to ongoing talks with them.
Nice that NC alliance motto is removing heretics from the game since 2012. How does that compare to a minor punitive action against local provocations as far as you're concerned?
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War talk - let's move it here
