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Deranzin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deranzin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 09:45
Originally posted by jcx jcx wrote:

Confused - confused much?

the war is 2 months old... as per gold reserved - this is sustainable.

a player can max his town with T2 Cav at a minimum of 100K units (HYO almost did this)  and bleeds 400,000 gold/h) and you'll burn 9.6M gold daily. that's without cost reduction building for faster troop production.

Exaggerated Calc: 
9.6M x10 cities = 96M Gold Daily in all towns. 10 days Maxed. lol (but this is not possible...)

if you have a billion you'll last up to 104 days holding those troops.


You are all forgetting the costs until you build up all those troops ;)

Here is the deal, to build a knight with no sov reduction requires 800 seconds.
100000 knights require 80.000.000 seconds which are 925 DAYS during which you will go negative in the 90% of them and the additive cost (-1000 per hour today, -2000 tomorrow, -3000 the next day and so forth Wink ) is going to be huge well before before you reach your target, or before a war starts, even with sov reduction ...



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jcx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 09:23
Confused - confused much?

the war is 2 months old... as per gold reserved - this is sustainable.

a player can max his town with T2 Cav at a minimum of 100K units (HYO almost did this)  and bleeds 400,000 gold/h) and you'll burn 9.6M gold daily. that's without cost reduction building for faster troop production.

Exaggerated Calc: 
9.6M x10 cities = 96M Gold Daily in all towns. 10 days Maxed. lol (but this is not possible...)

if you have a billion you'll last up to 104 days holding those troops.

But since you are at WAR - no troops will stay that long inside the barracks. they'll kill, plunder and die before burning your billion to dust.

I've no issue with permasat accounts. Happy Gaming Everyone. :D
Disclaimer: The above is jcx|orcboy's personal opinion and is not the opinion or policy of Harmless? [H?] or of the little green men that have been following him all day.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deranzin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 09:07
Originally posted by Brids17 Brids17 wrote:

Originally posted by Meagh Meagh wrote:

If you are running -100k+ in this war since it's start then I must say that there is no way that you can do it without using at least one feeder account... There is just no way that this can be done... and before you say, 'oh but many players have billions' then I will point out that yes, I understand.. I am one of those players.. and if you average -100k we could say you are -20mil a day. That adds up pretty quick. You are talking about fifty days worth of coin at that level. this war has already gone past that. If you have an extremely large army (say -500k) then you are talking about much less time for a war.

Your math is very bad. That's 2.4M a day. And 1B/2.4M = 416 days. That's absolutely sustainable without a second account. Even if we said -500K that's still 84 days on 1B gold. 


You are doing the math for one town ... he was talking about ten of them.
100000 per hour * 24 hours * 10 towns = 24.000.000 million gold deficit per day.

Originally posted by Epidemic Epidemic wrote:

Its just not possible to sustain a military account, on its own, permanently in this game.

What do I mean by a military account; 16-20 L2 or higher troop sov claims, 2 or more troop lodgings, non-stop production, large amount of troops, high taxes, 2 or more geo magic effect, in every single town.


 
There is a solution, it is pretty easy and obvious, but since it is you I will let you find it by yourself LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Epidemic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 07:59
Its just not possible to sustain a military account, on its own, permanently in this game.

What do I mean by a military account; 16-20 L2 or higher troop sov claims, 2 or more troop lodgings, non-stop production, large amount of troops, high taxes, 2 or more geo magic effect, in every single town.

Even a player that keeps low taxes, has decent amount of troops and kills off their troops as fast as they build them is going to be hard pressed to collect the resources needed to keep the war machine running.

I find it hard to imagine that some players, in times of peace, have no troops and very high taxes for the explicit purpose of hoarding the gold until a time of war. That would be the definition of a permasit account.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brids17 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 01:04
Originally posted by Meagh Meagh wrote:

If you are running -100k+ in this war since it's start then I must say that there is no way that you can do it without using at least one feeder account... There is just no way that this can be done... and before you say, 'oh but many players have billions' then I will point out that yes, I understand.. I am one of those players.. and if you average -100k we could say you are -20mil a day. That adds up pretty quick. You are talking about fifty days worth of coin at that level. this war has already gone past that. If you have an extremely large army (say -500k) then you are talking about much less time for a war.

Your math is very bad. That's 2.4M a day. And 1B/2.4M = 416 days. That's absolutely sustainable without a second account. Even if we said -500K that's still 84 days on 1B gold. 


Edited by Brids17 - 03 Jan 2014 at 01:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deranzin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2014 at 09:22
Originally posted by Meagh Meagh wrote:

The war should be unsustainable for most large players at this point. the fact that it isn't leaves me feeling like such a noob... i haven't run positive gold cities in a long time... and i'm a peaceful trader... And it is only my trade that allows me to keep a sizeable army for the defense of myself and my friends. At times I have run over -100k in a city.. Now I can't imagine sustaining that for very long and I certainly can't imagine going beyond to say.. 500k? or more?


I think that this topic is being a bit dramatic on what an account can sustain ... admitting that I still have the newbie mentality of wanting EVERYTHING to be in the positive (not because that it cannot be done, but because this is a city building game and I like being good at eco-nomy ) I always stay in the positive (gold, resources, research) during peace time.

Despite that, in 8 cities I had a six digit number of T2 troops which were more than capable of protecting my account and there is NO NEED to go negative on anything to maintain an army of a decent size.

If you want to go "monster size", yes, many things will hit eventually red, BUT for a trader, like you say, such a thing is imho a total waste of resources.

Originally posted by Meagh Meagh wrote:


If you are running -100k+ in this war since it's start then I must say that there is no way that you can do it without using at least one feeder account... There is just no way that this can be done... and before you say, 'oh but many players have billions' then I will point out that yes, I understand.. I am one of those players.. and if you average -100k we could say you are -20mil a day. That adds up pretty quick. You are talking about fifty days worth of coin at that level. this war has already gone past that. If you have an extremely large army (say -500k) then you are talking about much less time for a war.

No sir.. This cannot be done without permasat feeder accounts. The fact that so many are claiming that they can do this or that it is being done is a VERY bad sign for Illy; pervasive permasat feeder accounts are a symptom of a dying game and dying community.


Indeed and I agree on that being a bad thing for the game ... I will not point to examples of cities which battle reports have revealed to have an extreme "black hole" setup, but I think that this is a very bad choice tactically too.

A city like the one described in the second page by Elmindra is a "black hole" setup that would demand at least 4-5 cities to feed it resources every day, as it would require approximately 800.000 of each of the basic resource DAILY to maintain that sov. Shocked

And in that regard I think that Sloter's post in the same page explains how bad that arrangement really is ...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Meagh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2014 at 08:01
The war should be unsustainable for most large players at this point. the fact that it isn't leaves me feeling like such a noob... i haven't run positive gold cities in a long time... and i'm a peaceful trader... And it is only my trade that allows me to keep a sizeable army for the defense of myself and my friends. At times I have run over -100k in a city.. Now I can't imagine sustaining that for very long and I certainly can't imagine going beyond to say.. 500k? or more?

If you are running -100k+ in this war since it's start then I must say that there is no way that you can do it without using at least one feeder account... There is just no way that this can be done... and before you say, 'oh but many players have billions' then I will point out that yes, I understand.. I am one of those players.. and if you average -100k we could say you are -20mil a day. That adds up pretty quick. You are talking about fifty days worth of coin at that level. this war has already gone past that. If you have an extremely large army (say -500k) then you are talking about much less time for a war.

No sir.. This cannot be done without permasat feeder accounts. The fact that so many are claiming that they can do this or that it is being done is a VERY bad sign for Illy; pervasive permasat feeder accounts are a symptom of a dying game and dying community.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brandmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2014 at 02:33
Originally posted by Epidemic Epidemic wrote:

Yes, this is true. But you can agree that this is not something that can be kept up forever. No player can war indefinitely, effectively, unless of course it has permasits feeding it.

Which is why most big alliances have lots of permasat accounts feeding their tournament and war engines. The largest military players can indeed fight indefinitely, even at +200-300% troop sov. Their gold and items will never be depleted, their troop queues will never stall. Only a newb would attempt to stay gold positive in an Illyriad war.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nesse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2014 at 18:41
Originally posted by Angrim Angrim wrote:

Originally posted by Tatharion Tatharion wrote:


I sincerely hope the same spirit of chivalry could be displayed in Elgea in about three weeks.

with due respect to the memory of the rl event described, it should be noted that the same chivalry was and is being displayed in illyriad. at last check, the two opposing sides were, in fact, playing a game against one another.

+1
Nesse(Dwarven Druids) and Odd (Fairy Road Authority)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jcx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2014 at 07:50
new blood will join in and war will continue until every warring alliance will seek peace and cease hostilities. :D Happy New Year - 2014. Clap
Disclaimer: The above is jcx|orcboy's personal opinion and is not the opinion or policy of Harmless? [H?] or of the little green men that have been following him all day.

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