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Deranzin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deranzin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 15:54
Originally posted by Ander Ander wrote:

 
Why do you consider it expensive? It is way less expensive than running 925 days without sovereignty.

hehehe ... EVERYTHING is less expensive than the original scenario Smile

Originally posted by Ander Ander wrote:

 
Add a 45% reduction from two cavalry parade grounds, you would have spent only 600K gold in 232 days while producing the 100K knights.


That is why I said initially that the parameters are many and I was not much in the mood to calculate it ...

2 Cavalry parades need resources as well ... the tweaking involved to make 300% sov production, with the cavalry parades and how much you will produce before it becomes cost ineffective or when to apply a 3rd cavalry parade or destroy one of them ... these and many things more are needed to be considered and I am not up to it atm.
 
Originally posted by Ander Ander wrote:


Not 10, just about 3 cities.

A 7 food city running at 20% spell and 40% sovereignty boost on food can produce 67106 gold at 85% tax. Assuming that the 8 immediate squares around the city are of 5 food sovereignty, the cost of sovereignty will be 4820 gold.


Cool ... but this result in those cities having no armies and we are back to Sloter's very good post on page 2. Wink

Originally posted by Darkwords Darkwords wrote:

Do you guys not realize the big hitters in this war did not start it on 0 gold and resources?



We are actually assuming the existence of infinite resources in those examples and just calculating the possible cost ... Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 15:53
Originally posted by Deranzin Deranzin wrote:

 
Yeah, but no city can generate that amount ... you would need 10 other cities to produce 20000 gold per hour (which mean few troops for them), just to "feed" the main city during all these days.

No wonder I call these setups "black holes" ... though they do remind me of the planet Trantor in the Foundation series as well.  Smile

The three biggest alliances on the anti-coalition side doesn't have training alliances (i could be wrong). So they cannot be supplying too many cities using alts from training alliances?

Almost every alliance on the coalition's side has training alliances. T?, DiL, ARM, T-P, NS. I am not saying that there are alts in these alliances supporting the war. Just pointing out that that if you believe troop sovereignty is linked to feeder accounts, this is something where that belief should clash.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 15:37
Originally posted by Darkwords Darkwords wrote:

Do you guys not realize the big hitters in this war did not start it on 0 gold and resources?

There are some who sell all their excess on the markets, there are others who horde.  The real expense of long term sov recruitment for a long term player is not gold, its the adv res needed to support such production.  Personally I still have plenty in my hubs, but I have noted how a couple of H players have had to purchase adv res from me for their troop production.

:)


Quite true Dark. I was running nearly 300% knight production in 3 of my Turalia cities and i ran out of 700 mil gold purchasing saddles only. 

Those dark days! I dont want to remember! Big smile

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darkwords Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 15:29
Do you guys not realize the big hitters in this war did not start it on 0 gold and resources?

There are some who sell all their excess on the markets, there are others who horde.  The real expense of long term sov recruitment for a long term player is not gold, its the adv res needed to support such production.  Personally I still have plenty in my hubs, but I have noted how a couple of H players have had to purchase adv res from me for their troop production.

:)

<Deranzin> I'd agree with darkone on that

[21:59]<ropadope> you know I am perverted

<Bartleby> dark is upsetting some peeps
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 15:28
Originally posted by Deranzin Deranzin wrote:

Originally posted by Ander Ander wrote:

Instead of 60,000 gold income and 0% sovereignty, use 0 gold income and 300% sovereignty. Then your 100K knights will be finished in 232 days, eating about 1.1 billion gold.


Exactly. Smile But it is still a way of production which I consider too expensive and sub-optimal.


Why do you consider it expensive? It is way less expensive than running 925 days without sovereignty.

Add a 45% reduction from two cavalry parade grounds, you would have spent only 600K gold in 232 days while producing the 100K knights.

Originally posted by Deranzin Deranzin wrote:

 
Originally posted by Ander Ander wrote:

That is about as much gold as 200K per hour for 232 days.


Yeah, but no city can generate that amount ... you would need 10 other cities to produce 20000 gold per hour.

Not 10, just about 3 cities. 

A 7 food city running at 20% spell and 40% sovereignty boost on food can produce 67106 gold at 85% tax. Assuming that the 8 immediate squares around the city are of 5 food sovereignty, the cost of sovereignty will be 4820 gold.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deranzin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 14:24
Originally posted by Ander Ander wrote:

Instead of 60,000 gold income and 0% sovereignty, use 0 gold income and 300% sovereignty. Then your 100K knights will be finished in 232 days, eating about 1.1 billion gold.


Exactly. Smile But it is still a way of production which I consider too expensive and sub-optimal.

Originally posted by Ander Ander wrote:

That is about as much gold as 200K per hour for 232 days.


Yeah, but no city can generate that amount ... you would need 10 other cities to produce 20000 gold per hour (which mean few troops for them), just to "feed" the main city during all these days.

No wonder I call these setups "black holes" ... though they do remind me of the planet Trantor in the Foundation series as well.  Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 14:01
Originally posted by Deranzin Deranzin wrote:


Don't mention it ... :)

To follow up with the costs I run a small calculation on that scenario.

In that case this city will produce 108 knights per day, adding an extra upkeep of 432 gold per our every day. So, supposing that it generates 60000 gold per hour and all of it is reserved for troops then if you want to create a monster army of a 100.000 knights, at the end of those 925 days you will have to have paid 3.108.355.200 gold in upkeep
 
Sov buildings and Cavalry parades of course reduce that time and cost, but you will have to take into account THEIR costs to maintain as well and I am not in the mood atm to add all those parameters to the calculations. Smile

Instead of 60,000 gold income and 0% sovereignty, use 0 gold income and 300% sovereignty. Then your 100K knights will be finished in 232 days, eating about 1.1 billion gold. That is about as much gold as 200K per hour for 232 days.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deranzin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 10:29
Originally posted by Halcyon Halcyon wrote:

While I too dislike the WW2 war crimes references, on the battlefield, this war has passed it's Stalingrad and El-Alamein phase. And while D-Day is yet to come, it seems that, to quote Sir Winston Churchill: "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."


I cannot even begin to imagine what you would have said if actually liked doing those references ! LOL

Good post though Smile

Edit:

Originally posted by jcx jcx wrote:

Ouch! Ouch

 /me goes back to training yard to find out how this troop making works. ty Deranzin. :D


Don't mention it ... :)

To follow up with the costs I run a small calculation on that scenario.

In that case this city will produce 108 knights per day, adding an extra upkeep of 432 gold per our every day. So, supposing that it generates 60000 gold per hour and all of it is reserved for troops then if you want to create a monster army of a 100.000 knights, at the end of those 925 days you will have to have paid 3.108.355.200 gold in upkeep
 
Sov buildings and Cavalry parades of course reduce that time and cost, but you will have to take into account THEIR costs to maintain as well and I am not in the mood atm to add all those parameters to the calculations. Smile


Edited by Deranzin - 03 Jan 2014 at 10:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jcx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 10:08
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You are all forgetting the costs until you build up all those troops ;)

Here is the deal, to build a knight with no sov reduction requires 800 seconds.
100000 knights require 80.000.000 seconds which are 925 DAYS during which you will go negative in the 90% of them and the additive cost (-1000 per hour today, -2000 tomorrow, -3000 the next day and so forth Wink ) is going to be huge well before before you reach your target, or before a war starts, even with sov reduction ...


Ouch! Ouch

 /me goes back to training yard to find out how this troop making works. ty Deranzin. :D
Disclaimer: The above is jcx|orcboy's personal opinion and is not the opinion or policy of Harmless? [H?] or of the little green men that have been following him all day.

jcx in H? | orcboy in H?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halcyon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 10:08
While I too dislike the WW2 war crimes references, on the battlefield, this war has passed it's Stalingrad and El-Alamein phase. And while D-Day is yet to come, it seems that, to quote Sir Winston Churchill: "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
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