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Topic Closedwar {P A} vs S&B
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StJude View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Jun 2011
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Points: 568 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2011 at 17:19
Originally posted by HonoredMule HonoredMule wrote:

You make it sound like a posting of text that forms the content of an alleged email is somehow irrefutable proof.  Nok is right; multiple witnesses claiming its validity really is just as solid a source of evidence.


HonoredMule, has your distaste for Aneirin colored your opinion here? You are a smart guy, so I was pretty damn surprised to see your reply here.

I do NOT agree that "multiple witnesses claiming its validity really is just as solid a source of evidence."

That is a red herring fallacy, specifically "Argumentum Ad Populum" (Wonder if Amroth can translate this?) Just because there are multiple witnesses CLAIMING it's validity, does not make the statement true.

Both Rill and Aneirin are correct in demanding the proof that many claim to have. I do not see that as an unreasonable request..

The other issue is you are assuming that the proof has to be presented in text. I appeal to the internet law of "PICS, OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN"
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HonoredMule View Drop Down
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Points: 1650 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2011 at 17:32
Let me make my argument more clear for you, and I'll write extra slowly.  Both forms of "evidence" are equally flimsy due to the ease of fabrication.

If you think a string of text has any shred of credibility above the claims of multiple sources, you vastly underestimate how easily anyone could type from scratch, or create by modifying the copied html of an existing unrelated email, or even easier still by modifying an Illyriad web page on the fly and then copying that.

Ultimately both forms of "evidence" are just words typed in a box.  But at least the latter is very likely involving actual distinct sources corroborating each other without conflict or discrepancy.
"Apparently, quoting me is a 'thing' now."
- HonoredMule
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StJude View Drop Down
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Points: 568 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2011 at 17:38
Let me write even slower for you.

S C R E E N S H O T.
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lorre View Drop Down
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Points: 446 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2011 at 17:47
i didnt post this thread for any other reason then to inform why we are at war 
The battlefield is a scene of constant chaos. The winner will be the one who controls that chaos, both his own and the enemies.
Napoleon Bonaparte
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Kurfist View Drop Down
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Points: 824 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2011 at 18:12
Originally posted by Sgt..Shanks Sgt..Shanks wrote:

The mail exists, I have seen it.


That doesn't prove anything.  Maybe Borg knows Zork in real life and recently Zork did something etc so Borg decided to go take some revenge in illy. 
Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin
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HonoredMule View Drop Down
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Points: 1650 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2011 at 18:22
Originally posted by StJude StJude wrote:

Let me write even slower for you.

S C R E E N S H O T.



Ok, here's one from that message you sent me 3 days ago.

honoredsoft.com/fake_screenshot.png

Editing the page, taking the screenshot, and highlighting the details/cleansing sensitive parts took less than 3 minutes total.
"Apparently, quoting me is a 'thing' now."
- HonoredMule
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StJude View Drop Down
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Points: 568 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2011 at 19:00
It took you 44mins to respond, I doubt that it took under 3mins.

That said 44mins is not a whole of time either and I would have been content with that.

I'll put it to you this way then. Hearsay and text, and now by your own demonstration, screenshots are not the basis to make an accusation and then say "I have PROOF"

At this point, who is now to say, (I love that you did this btw) that what Lorre has is proof?

It is all still in the realm of conjecture and speculation. And....your point is still a fallacy of logic. Just because some folks SAY it is true, does not MAKE it true.

Now, is the evidence compelling? Now I am not so sure.....you just did a great job showing that even the screenshot forwarded to the GC Police is suspect.
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Nokigon View Drop Down
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Joined: 07 Nov 2010
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Points: 1452 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2011 at 19:08
You don't seem to see HM's point. Nothing is proof! What you have to do is decide whether you believe the mail is genuine, which clearly you don't. I do. You have your opinion, I have mine. End of?
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Smoking GNU View Drop Down
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Points: 313 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2011 at 19:22
Obviously not, Nok. Jude is the Troll of choice these days.
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Aneirin View Drop Down
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Points: 186 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2011 at 19:25
Originally posted by HonoredMule HonoredMule wrote:

Originally posted by StJude StJude wrote:

Let me write even slower for you.

S C R E E N S H O T.



Ok, here's one from that message you sent me 3 days ago.

honoredsoft.com/fake_screenshot.png

Editing the page, taking the screenshot, and highlighting the details/cleansing sensitive parts took less than 3 minutes total.

Hello HM

Thank you for revealing your hitherto unknown ability to forge screenshots. No doubt this talent at forgery will be noted  by many outside of H? 

The point made by Rill and Celebcalen in this thread is that allegations on issues such multiple accounts, which question a players integrity, shouldn't be spread without some sort of proof or evidence. Sgt Shanks says she has seen a mail. Nokigon has said that he has seen it but this is not evidence . It is hearsay.

It's no good telling those players who believe integrity that "Multitudes have seen it" so there is no need to produce a mail.  People don't want hearsay that is just as bad as spreading a false rumour.. People want integrity and proof.

If Lorre has a mail he should back up his claims that the Zork account is being wrongly used. If he does not then he cannot be believed and his allegations are as fraudulent as the screenshot that you produced in the above posting! 

Whatever happened to simple honesty?


Edited by Aneirin - 07 Aug 2011 at 19:27
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