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Topic ClosedWar game or not?
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Drejan View Drop Down
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Points: 234 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 19:28
And this is not what i want to say, my post is focused to solve the "this is not a war game" discussion i hear from time to time.
I think you are free to enjoy as you like but the structure of the game is of a war-game for me.

And as for me, i settled all my cities and i can't remember a succesfull siege i did on an active player in 2 years, and i'm almost sure i'm one of the top 50 most active military player of illyiriad.


Edited by Drejan - 12 Oct 2012 at 19:29
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LordOfTheSwamp View Drop Down
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Points: 481 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 19:22
Originally posted by Drejan Drejan wrote:

Sorry Lord of Swamp but let's make some exaple, let's pick some bug and see what effect has on the game:
1) Caravans bug: every caravans or trader is not working for 1 year
2) Magic is not working for a year
3) Troops and diplomats are not working for a year

what you think would effect the actual gameplay more?
For me 3rd, not becouse i do like it but becouse other 2 are bind to the 3rd.

Yeah obviously. I am also a military player. But I do not stamp on other peoples' sandcastles and call it fun.

In the last 2 years I have:
* Fought in several tournaments (including 1 individual category victory + 1 alliance overall victory)
* Organised several consensual PvP mini-tourneys (which were the most fun I've had in Illy)
* Broken or helped to break at least a dozen sieges launched by "non-consentual PvP wargamers"
* Also helped break a siege that I shouldn't have broken (because the target of the siege was himself a predator - ooops - lesson learned, get information before marching!)
* Tracked down 2 players who were predating on small players, destroyed their wall (not pop buildings) and then had a full and frank "now explain how you will say sorry to the people you've stolen from" conversation

I have not been bored.

Using troops in Illy does not require one to impose non-consensual PvP on the game.

(Edited to remove potentially over-stating my achievements!)


Edited by LordOfTheSwamp - 12 Oct 2012 at 19:24
"A boy is building sandcastles on a beach. You go and kick down his castle. You could say that it only reflects how you play with sandcastles. Others may think it reflects who you are." - Ander.
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Glognar View Drop Down
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Points: 12 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 19:20
1c dosn`t rob people of their choices. They have chosen to play a game in which non consensual PvP is allowed. If they don't like that then don't chose to play this game.

As for only playing the game as a trader or any of the other non war options, ultimately when trading or giving away resources or whatever you are contributing to an economy that is built on war and troops even if you yourself don't build troops or war.

Finally this is a sandbox game, you can play it how you want but with the knowledge that somebody else could war with you and attack your cities at any time.
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LordOfTheSwamp View Drop Down
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Points: 481 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 19:13
Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

I think you mean 1c, Kurdruk.  But I may be misunderstanding.

LOL - yeah, typo fixed ;-)   Thanks!
"A boy is building sandcastles on a beach. You go and kick down his castle. You could say that it only reflects how you play with sandcastles. Others may think it reflects who you are." - Ander.
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Rill View Drop Down
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Points: 6903 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 19:13
I think you mean 1c, Kurdruk.  But I may be misunderstanding.
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Drejan View Drop Down
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Points: 234 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 19:11
Sorry Lord of Swamp but let's make some exaple, let's pick some bug and see what effect has on the game:
1) Caravans bug: every caravans or trader is not working for 1 year
2) Magic is not working for a year
3) Troops and diplomats are not working for a year

what you think would effect the actual gameplay more?
For me 3rd, not becouse i do like it but becouse other 2 are bind to the 3rd.
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LordOfTheSwamp View Drop Down
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Points: 481 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 19:07
The debate seems miss placed to me - sorry to be a pedant, but...

The question is not whether the game *is* a wargame.

The only thing that Illy absolutely 100% *is* is a building game. Because if you sign up and then refuse to ever build a building, you can do *nothing*. So, you have to build.

After that
1) It COULD BE a war game for you.
2) It COULD BE a trading game for you. (You could actually stop building as soon as you had a trader in a Hub, and just play the trading only, and I'm sure that if I got into it I could spend longer with the trade system than I now do with troops.)
3) And to a lesser degree it could be about crafting, exploration, magic, etc. as YOU choose (as people like Scribes play it.)

Lets unpack the wargame aspect of it. Once you have decided to play the game as a wargame, you can then choose:
1a) It COULD be a PvE wargame for you. (But not with much interest at present.)
1b) It COULD be a consensual PvP game. (This is how I play it. And I can attest that this is WAY more fun that facing the steamroller of a bunch of vets.)
1c) It COULD be a non-consensual PvP game.

What is unique about 1c is that this choice alone - and it is a choice - can rob other people of their choices.

If in KP's analogy, I am presented with a toy catapult as I walk on to a beach, then I have the choice of whether or not to take it and if so what else to do with it. (I could do all sorts of things with it - re-engineer it to make it better, set up my own targets to shoot it at, whatever - or I could do something else on the beach.)

Kurdruk

PS Ander - "A boy is building sandcastles on a beach. You go and kick down his castle. You could say that it only reflects how you play with sandcastles. Others may(or may not) think it reflects who you are." That is not only true, it's actually profoundly thought-provoking. Do you mind if I steal it?


Edited by LordOfTheSwamp - 12 Oct 2012 at 19:11
"A boy is building sandcastles on a beach. You go and kick down his castle. You could say that it only reflects how you play with sandcastles. Others may think it reflects who you are." - Ander.
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Rill View Drop Down
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Points: 6903 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 19:02
The boy who shot a catapult at someone else's castle without that person's permission is indeed reflecting something of himself.  So is the person who is surprised that such people exist.  (We call that naivete.)
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Sir Bradly View Drop Down
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Points: 228 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 18:48
Originally posted by KillerPoodle KillerPoodle wrote:

Originally posted by Ander Ander wrote:

Originally posted by belargyle belargyle wrote:

Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

This game is what we make of it.  It reflects who we are.  Hopefully we are the sort of people who can respect ourselves in the morning. Wink
I disagree, not with "the game is what we make it", but with "it reflects who we are". This is patently untrue.. it reflects how we play not who we are. 

A boy is building sandcastles on a beach. You go and kick down his castle.

You could say that it only reflects how you play with sandcastles. Others may(or may not) think it reflects who you are.



A better example is:

A boy arrives at a private beach and signs up for membership. As part of being a member you get a bucket and spade plus a catapult, nerf gun, water balloons, etc.

Boy enters beach and starts to build a sandcastle then acts surprised when someone drops a stone on it with the catapult.

Clap
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KillerPoodle View Drop Down
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Points: 1853 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 18:47
Originally posted by Ander Ander wrote:

Originally posted by belargyle belargyle wrote:

Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

This game is what we make of it.  It reflects who we are.  Hopefully we are the sort of people who can respect ourselves in the morning. Wink
I disagree, not with "the game is what we make it", but with "it reflects who we are". This is patently untrue.. it reflects how we play not who we are. 

A boy is building sandcastles on a beach. You go and kick down his castle.

You could say that it only reflects how you play with sandcastles. Others may(or may not) think it reflects who you are.



A better example is:

A boy arrives at a private beach and signs up for membership. As part of being a member you get a bucket and spade plus a catapult, nerf gun, water balloons, etc.

Boy enters beach and starts to build a sandcastle then acts surprised when someone drops a stone on it with the catapult.
"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM

"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill
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