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Versus Animals Doesn't Work

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TheBillPN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheBillPN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Versus Animals Doesn't Work
    Posted: 01 Dec 2020 at 22:34
Hello all, 

I've recently been informed that the animal buffs on equipment doesn't work as stated? Presumably less than expected otherwise there would be nothing to complain about. Two questions then:

How much worse than stated is it?

Is there a possible fix for this issue?

Many thanks,
TheBillPN
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2020 at 01:53
I've heard that rumor but never seen the underlying data that confirm it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimmyeo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2020 at 21:49
Are you still playing, Rill? I don't think I ever met you but I have heard of you. I noticed your account went away pretty recently.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GM Stormcrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2020 at 10:13
Originally posted by TheBillPN TheBillPN wrote:

Hello all, 

I've recently been informed that the animal buffs on equipment doesn't work as stated? Presumably less than expected otherwise there would be nothing to complain about. Two questions then:

How much worse than stated is it?

Is there a possible fix for this issue?

Many thanks,
TheBillPN

Hey Bill,

As far as we are aware, vs animals is working as intended.  

However - of course, and this is a general rule! - if anyone has any specific data that shows otherwise, we'd certainly look at it; and if there's anything to fix I'll make sure it gets fixed.

However - and I can't stress this enough - anecdotal evidence isn't really actionable.  

So I'd urge anyone who thinks that combat bonuses vs animals:
a) isn't working, or
b) is partially working (and if this is the belief, in what sense is it only partially working, and what data shows this belief to be the reality?)

... to provide some actual data (combat reports etc) showing how it is (or isn't) working as one believes it should be.

Definitely listening at this end!

Best,

SC

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bolism Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2020 at 03:31
Since I joined the game late 2017, I always been informed that the animal gear doesn't work, by damn good hunters. And it's not something new, there been post in the forum since before I joined, https://forum.illyriad.co.uk/combat-equipment-and-divisional-bonuses_topic6486.html

I tested those vs animal bonus last year again after finally crafting the skysplinter gear. For my tests I totally gave up on vs animal since they don't seem to have received the x5 scaling of others gear in 2015.
A boar spear worse than razor-edge spear to fight some animals :o

I'm ok to redo some testing if i find motivation but can't guarantee it :p


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GM Stormcrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2020 at 09:45
Originally posted by Bolism Bolism wrote:

Since I joined the game late 2017, I always been informed that the animal gear doesn't work, by damn good hunters. And it's not something new, there been post in the forum since before I joined, https://forum.illyriad.co.uk/combat-equipment-and-divisional-bonuses_topic6486.html

I tested those vs animal bonus last year again after finally crafting the skysplinter gear. For my tests I totally gave up on vs animal since they don't seem to have received the x5 scaling of others gear in 2015.
A boar spear worse than razor-edge spear to fight some animals :o

I'm ok to redo some testing if i find motivation but can't guarantee it :p



Many thanks for this, and the link to the 2017 post.

But here's my question - are we saying:

a) That the vs animal equipment bonus is working, but isn't buffed enough (eg x5 scaling), and that other equipment is actually better... - or
b) That the vs animal equipment bonus isn't working at all

Code-wise... that's a huge difference.

Best,

SC


Edited by GM Stormcrow - 05 Dec 2020 at 09:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bolism Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2020 at 08:51
Not scaled correctly, I'll create some new fresh commanders tomorrow and will send few on suicidal missions, I'll report then.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Bolism Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2020 at 02:58
Test1:
Defenders:Unit:Quantity:Casualties:Survivors:
Troops: Rhino Calves Rhino Calves 8 8 0
Troops: Enraged Rhinos Enraged Rhinos 4 4 0
Troops:Adult Black Rhinos Adult Black Rhinos321

- terrain: Plains
- attacking army: Cav

Total defense vs Cav:  845 = (8x32 + 4x51 + 3x72) x (1 + 25%) = 676 x 1.25

Army sent:
Commander: 1 charioteer, lvl 0, with 1 boar spear:
- attack (if + animal): 37 x ( 1 + 2 x 120%) x (1 + 30%) = 37 x 3.4 x 1.3 = 163.54
- attack (if +animal - atk): 37 x (1 + 2 x (120%-16%))x(1+30%) =  37 x 3.08 x 1.3 = 148.148

Troops:
15 charioteers: 15x37x(1+30%) = 721.5

Either way it's higher than the def and should get a win (if I didn't messed up :D ):
721.5+148.148=869.648
721.5+163.54 = 885.04

Results: (https://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/External/CombatReport/AQAAAHQNRjrIMmLpC4VdWWlZujY8OAqyKtiZ8HmWLwgo5frMo3MDoN-NXP0=)


Despite your troops' defeat, word reaches you concerning the defenders' forces in this battle.

Defenders: Unit: Quantity: Casualties: Survivors:
Troops: Rhino Calves 8 8 0
Troops: Enraged Rhinos 4 4 0
Troops: Adult Black Rhinos321
Attackers:Unit:Quantity:Casualties:Survivors:
Commander: T1 Charioteer 1 Damaged for 100, 0 health remains.
Troops: Charioteers Charioteers 15 15 0



Edited by Bolism - 07 Dec 2020 at 02:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Bolism Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2020 at 05:26
Test2:


Despite your troops' defeat, word reaches you concerning the defenders' forces in this battle.


Defenders: Unit: Quantity: Casualties: Survivors:
Troops: Young Elephants Young Elephants 34 33 1
Troops: Adult Elephants Adult Elephants 17 17 0
Troops: Bull Elephants Bull Elephants 8 8 0
Troops:Elder Elephants Elder Elephants550
Attackers:Unit:Quantity:Casualties:Survivors:
Commander: T1 Charioteers Charioteer 1 Damaged for 100, 0 health remains.
Troops: Charioteers Charioteers 145 145 0


Report: https://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/External/CombatReport/AQAAALidnLSlv0FgP8j2Ax2zl-EjM35Nq2yxUghZ9Db2TryWMhEykJThNgA=

Calculation:

Defense: (large hills)

34x66+17x81+8x100+5x142=5131
5131x0.9=4617.9 cav def on large hills

Attack: no elite
commander
37x(1+1x120%)x(1-15%)=69.19
37x(1+1x104%)x(1-15%)=64.158

Troops
145x37x(1-15%)=4560.25

Army
4560.25+69.19=4629.44
4560.25+64.158=4624.408

Should win in theory, if I didn't made mistake here also


I'll make some more test with some stronger commanders to see how far it is!














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Bolism View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Bolism Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2020 at 06:53
Test3:



Despite your troops' defeat, word reaches you concerning the defenders' forces in this battle.


Defenders: Unit: Quantity: Casualties: Survivors:
Troops: Scuttlers Scuttlers 3023 2913 110
Troops: Adult Scuttlers Adult Scuttlers 1507 1453 54
Troops: Ravenous Scuttlers Ravenous Scuttlers 750 722 28
Troops:Elder Scuttlers Elder Scuttlers37135813
Attackers:Unit:Quantity:Casualties:Survivors:
Commander: K19-05 Knights Knight 1 Damaged for 200, 0 health remains.
Troops: Knights Knights 1332 1332 0

Report:
https://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/External/CombatReport/AQAAAEhf-CD3SIWc5BCh0KtJ3I9wZXVeg7QsNjwEDwkyc7p2AIiY1QTM_sE=

Small forest:
whole calculation on that spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vQ1EfCAM0pC6RH5oQ2KWRlFy3c0Tsz-zEr1WaJg0tlY/edit#gid=1443502364
<< I based the boar spear on 104 (120%animal -16% attack)

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