Play Now Login Create Account
illyriad
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Vaults
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedVaults
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
Author
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Albatross View Drop Down
Postmaster General
Postmaster General


Joined: 11 May 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1118 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2012 at 10:28
Further, (in case I attract 'you missed the point' replies), the OP is wanting a way of ensuring that more resources are unthieveble.

As an alternative to my above suggestion, perhaps the 'attack/defence engagement' balance should be tweaked:
  1. When stealing from a small stockpile, it should be more difficult to evade detection.
  2. On the maths of detection and capture: a defensive diplo can raise the alarm, and the military presence in the town can respond to help capture thieves. This should have a bearing on how many escape if the mission is detected. Large numbers of attacking thieves may be able to overcome smaller military forces by brute force (an area where thieves do not excel).
  3. A tiny defence should still be able to raise the alarm if a burglary is discovered in-progress.
Point 1 makes larger players 'fair game', while protecting smaller players. However, for a sandbox game, it feels wrong to be introducing 'protection' mechanisms to dictate the behaviour of players (the social threat should keep larger rogues in check).

p.s. We might (mistakenly) expect a person with better-developed diplomatic capability to win over someone with lesser capability. Given that 'detection' is involved, and theft is about more than brute force, then unit numbers do not always determine the result.


Edited by Albatross - 29 Mar 2012 at 10:33
Back to Top
Albatross View Drop Down
Postmaster General
Postmaster General


Joined: 11 May 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1118 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2012 at 10:04
I just thought through an idea, and ended up reinventing the Master Thief.

So that's where I think the answer lies: an increase in the basic defence stat of the Master Thief. They have enough of an upkeep penalty to maintain game balance.

That takes care of the upper-end of the scale. The Vault looks after the lower end, until players can have Master Thieves. I say 'Master Thieves' (T2) rather than 'Burglars' (T1) because they know how to steal advances resources.

So I think the game design is right just now, but perhaps the numbers could be tweaked. If the Vault is not good enough, then perhaps your town is big enough to be creating Thieves for defence.

That just leaves the question of whether the Vault does enough for a player with less than, say, 2000 pop.
Back to Top
Rorgash View Drop Down
Postmaster
Postmaster
Avatar

Joined: 23 Aug 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 894 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2012 at 18:41
that looks good, and they can always make it start scaling different after a specific level if need be, but i think its a good and clear way of making this improvement
Back to Top
SunStorm View Drop Down
Postmaster
Postmaster
Avatar

Joined: 01 Apr 2011
Location: "Look Up"
Status: Offline
Points: 979 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2012 at 18:38
/me loves my vault.  (^_^)

But if changes are going to be made, I think vaults should protect a % of resources based on maximum inventory.  

e.g.  Your city (with maxed out storehouse and warehouse) can hold 767, 508 basic resources.  If the system set up a vault to store 1% of that by level 20, then 7,675 advanced resources could be protected.  Granted, this is not a HUGE amount...but come on - ppl are going to want to get something with thieves.  Wink

You can enlarge this image to double size by going to this link:
http://myeternalreverie.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/0000.png


I am NOT advocating the Dev's make these changes because this will hurt new players who have not yet increased their inventory size (as you can see above in the spreadsheet) - however, if a balance could be found between making it beneficial to new players as well as experienced players, then it would be nice to see the vault work on a % scale.

Oh, and if you find an error or typo in the spreadsheet, please keep it to yourself (^_^).
"Side? I am on nobody's side because nobody is on my side" ~LoTR
Back to Top
Rorgash View Drop Down
Postmaster
Postmaster
Avatar

Joined: 23 Aug 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 894 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2012 at 08:30
They need a MUCH higher end number, i mean at lvl 20 they protect 200 adv resources... why not just cap it at lvl 3 then.. really..
Back to Top
HonoredMule View Drop Down
Postmaster General
Postmaster General
Avatar

Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1650 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2012 at 02:47
I would like to see the vault gain protection capability that is several orders of magnitude higher, but in return for massively higher upkeep and perhaps a less absolute form of protection (i.e. cannot raid X capacity but maybe can still steal greater amounts with full attack, and adding natural defense vs thieves rather than disallowing theft of X capacity).  I'm not sure how you would justify such a setup in role-play (perhaps rename the vault to some form of security staff building), but it would be a good balance and utility for gameplay.  The vault needs to not only be useful, but useful enough to justify a tradeoff against alternatives (T2 buildings with similar basic resource upkeep) while not completely disabling theft and marauding.

Such a change would certainly promote the game's intended shift toward city specialization, and well complement a trade focus or just enable more secure stockpiles at the cost of some other benefit (such as greater military strength) so that its use is appropriately moderated.
"Apparently, quoting me is a 'thing' now."
- HonoredMule
Back to Top
Rill View Drop Down
Postmaster General
Postmaster General
Avatar
Player Council - Geographer

Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6903 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2012 at 00:41
Originally posted by Calico_Jack Calico_Jack wrote:

you know the cost of upgrading a vault? Tongue

From my guide to basic self defense for new players:

As the value of basic resources has increased, the value of a low-level vault for new players has also increased.  A level 3 vault is relatively fast to build (one hour 10 minutes for levels 1 through 3) and does not require many resources (300 of each resource for the first three levels).  It protects 2500 of each basic resource (food, wood, clay, stone and iron) and gold and 30 of each advanced resource (such as books, saddles and spears).  This level of protection is enough for a new player to continue a building program as well as to protect books to re-cast a rune.  Building a vault beyond level 3 significantly increases the amount of resources required to build and is probably unnecessary for most new players.
Back to Top
Darkwords View Drop Down
Postmaster General
Postmaster General
Avatar

Joined: 23 May 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1005 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2012 at 23:45
I agree with Rill, however I do agree that improving the ammount protected would be a good thing.
Back to Top
Rorgash View Drop Down
Postmaster
Postmaster
Avatar

Joined: 23 Aug 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 894 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2012 at 23:30
you know the cost of upgrading a vault? Tongue
Back to Top
Rill View Drop Down
Postmaster General
Postmaster General
Avatar
Player Council - Geographer

Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6903 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2012 at 23:28
New players do indeed suffer theft attacks, most often from other new players.  Vaults can be useful for these small, new players, allowing them to protect enough resources to keep building and enough advanced resources to re-cast a rune.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.