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CristinaZah View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2011 at 15:55
Speaking of our second-in-command, darkone.

The following is a mass alliance message that was sent by darkone this afternoon, and I have gotten the permission to quote it from him.

Quote Basically I am tired of the game for a number of reasons.

Primarilly it comes down to the dirrection of the game, with the negative food exploit and the continual derailment of any plan to fix this, due to the interests of the meta gamers here, it is clear that illyriad will never develop into what it holds the promise of being.

Combined with that; the cowardly, pathetic and infantile behaiviour of not just the largest alliance in this game, but others also, I have no intention of wasting any more of my time or money into illyriad.  I mean I love paying Call of Cthulu, but would not play it with primary school children.
 

I have a real life that is rewarding in itself, as such this game is merely a time-waster and is now one that I do not deem worth while.

 

Boro and AZ have already given up, infact Boro gave up about 1 month ago, I beleive tigre has given up and I myself cant be bothered.  I expect illyriad will become increadibly boring from here on, unless of course the devs finally decide to go aginst the strongest 'market force' and do something that risks upsetting the meta gamers here.

 

I expect the only way that I would realy come back to the game is if the devs launched a new server, although I expect it would merely get dominated by more immature loosers who want to placate their wasted lives by dominating an online game again,  one day perhaps someone will have the sense to make one of these games that is for adults only, perhaps that would be able to develop into a decent game.

 

For those that do remain I hope that things do change.  As if not this battle merely proves that anyone who grows to a strength that H feels threatened by (not a difficult task and one we acheived in a matter of a few months), who does not brown nose H and play the game as H dictate, will then be crush by H and those with their noses where they should not be.

 

I would say have fun, but doubt you really will in the long term,

Dark.

As you can see, he's pretty disappointed with not just the current situation, but the game as a whole.
I might not share his pessimism regarding the future of the game, but I can understand his frustration.

Sadly, this is not the only case of "burn-out", if what he says there is accurate.
I have seen burnout in quite a few other games I used to play, and yes, it is a legitimate concern - invest too much, too soon, too often, and when a seemingly insurmountable problem comes around, that's the straw that breaks the camel's back.
I personally have learned to pace myself after making the same mistake a few times (I'm no spring chicken anymore, if you catch my drift), but whoever masters pacing is far less likely to even WANT to be in a position of power.


Also, apparently, Azreil has been gone for LONGER than that:
Quote I’m afraid dark is right. I have been sitting Azreil and he hasn’t logged in for almost 6 days. What you see was my last login as a sitter. I didn’t want to mislead you and I stopped doing it because I realized that all of you will think that Azreil is here. On the other hand I was hopping that he will come back, but unfortunately it won’t happen for various reasons, where the more important is his personal life.

I guess now YOU have to decide which way to go. I said you because I’m planning to quit as well. My reason is similar as dark’s and I need to go back to my real life.

When I started this game was fun, but the fun is no more.

All the best to ALL of you.

Vlachko

So, it might be indeed that the coalition will end up getting what they wanted (or probably more) without actually having to bother even presenting some of the terms.



Edited by CristinaZah - 01 Oct 2011 at 15:59
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CristinaZah View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2011 at 15:44
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the leader of an alliance can manually hand over leadership to somebody else if he wants to, no ?

It is my hope that in case the majority of the alliance would vote to have a change of leadership, then Azreil (whenever he passes around back to these parts) will be just gracious enough to simply hand it over... and that the coalition would be understanding enough to temporarily cease aggression on the rest of the people that have agreed to whatever terms the coalition will be proposing until we can fully comply one way or another.

It amazes me how a lot of people in here only think or at least speak of the worst case scenario. 
Yes, we might need to plan for a worst case scenario, but it is by no means the only option available.
Azreil might not be the perfect leader, true, but that doesn't mean he has to be vindictive enough to refuse handing leadership over. Sure, he might need some time to cool down, but as long as he's literally away from the game, it's not like he can actually do anything the coalition finds unpleasant, no ?

Also, what player would you rather have in the game, in your alliance, or as a friend ? One that bails out at the first sign of trouble, or one that sticks around until it looks hopeless, and sometimes even for a while after ? 

We speak about protecting newbies, but what about protecting the veterans ? Do you really wish to drive out from the game anywhere between 20 to 80 active players JUST BECAUSE a literal handful of people from the alliance behave in a way some people did not like ? What's the greater loss, somebody who has been around for 6 to 12 months, or somebody who has been around for 2 weeks and might quit in another week ? 
It's one thing to get raided for resources or asked to move or be sieged, but it's a completely a different matter altogether to face the destruction of what took you months upon months to accomplish (maybe even spent some cash on it for prestige) because 6+ alliances (out of which some prepared for war for a good while in advance) declared war on your alliance and started obliteration protocols ?


Yes, as I said, probably a few people "deserved it", or maybe not so much, I do not know for sure - thing is, we NEED to know what is ASKED of us.
If a change in leadership is needed, say you want a change in leadership, and if we vote to obey the terms, we will do everything in our power to do exactly that. If however your intention is to have us break down the alliance, SAY that. Sure, it will be harder to swallow, but at least we'll know.
I know Valar as an alliance is not exactly the most popular alliance right now (understatement of the year) and I am only mildly surprised it is so (talk about problems growing way out of proportion), but I doubt anybody that dislikes Valar as an alliance could really name more than 1 out of 10 names with which they actually have a grudge (and most of those names from various sources will probably be nearly the same).

Bottom line, I am still waiting to see a simple copypasteable to the Valar general population "If you do the following list of things and promise to this other list of things, we will drop the wars and stop any hostilities" post or mail from the coalition, either individually from each of them, or as a single combined statement of terms.
Again, true, we might not be able to accomplish much without doing some irreversible things, but that doesn't mean we have to rush and do them.


Edited by CristinaZah - 01 Oct 2011 at 15:45
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Jefke View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2011 at 14:40
If the goal is "remove alliance leadership",.. it looks likely to become "remove the alliance completely". Been there. Not a good place to be. I can only hope that all involved consider the results of their actions.

No alliance worth it's name can claim innocence or "the moral high ground". History will be written by those who can. But it are our choices and actions that define us, nothing else.

If you wonder; SkB will support it's allies - VALAR, ICON, ... are there more on the black list? Yet we stand for peace. So we will not attack unless being attacked.

Simple no?
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lorre View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2011 at 14:13
Originally posted by Celebcalen Celebcalen wrote:

Originally posted by lorre lorre wrote:

.

why do i still bother....



Many of us ask the same question

that was supposed to be clever?
The battlefield is a scene of constant chaos. The winner will be the one who controls that chaos, both his own and the enemies.
Napoleon Bonaparte
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2011 at 14:05
Originally posted by lorre lorre wrote:

.

why do i still bother....



Many of us ask the same question
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2011 at 14:02
well it wasnt valar supporting there confed that was PoS.

why do i still bother....
The battlefield is a scene of constant chaos. The winner will be the one who controls that chaos, both his own and the enemies.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2011 at 13:44
Me supports VALAR.

So much talking. And i can only understand half. 

for the half i can understand... Valar supported therer conf, killing sieges against allies. Now it all ends up in a coalition trying to kill VALAR (getting to big and strong?), cuz the way the Coalition thinks and plays is the best way to play they say. ( cant Valar say the same?)

I have been helped by Valar members (and have never be one of them), and from other alliances Like the ASir (and have never be one of them). But i have never been helped by any of your do-good alliaces. SO i support the ones that have made my stay here a bit easy and bit more fun.

For me its only an war of "the world must be like i like it to be". And in that case I like to be whit the VALAR.

Wolfgangvondi
Just another Orc



 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2011 at 12:59
Originally posted by CristinaZah CristinaZah wrote:

Originally posted by The_Dragon The_Dragon wrote:

CristinaZah, why you? Why not Azreil himself to start this thread?
In my personal opinion, Valar's problem arise because of their arrogance leaders.  The fact that this thread is created by you is only prove that it didn't change yet.
Why me ? Precisely BECAUSE the leadership didn't do it. Why they didn't is an exercise in thought I am not willing to entertain at this time, and needs to be solved separately.

With the risk of repeating myself for the 3rd time even if this is only my second post, if it is true that Valar needs different leadership, how exactly do you expect this thread to be created by the existing leadership ? That's as close to Catch-22 you can get in Illyriad.

Originally posted by Uno Uno wrote:

I think it was clear to everyone at this point that Azreil doesn't want to talk?
PlayerRoleStatusTotal Population
Azreil [VALAR]Seeker of OromeLast 1-3 days82,925

Not being around makes it a bit difficult to speak.

awful to be in Velar right now.
i feel you....
leader absence is really hard on the morale of any ally... the more if at war whit a lot of people..
what about second in command Darkone?
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2011 at 12:50
Originally posted by Uno Uno wrote:

Rill ok, everyone except you if you feel it is necessary to nitpick on this point. A part from the fact that you aren't conducting any war action, you had already expressed in a number of posts the desire to talk about a diplomatic solution so I didn't think it is necessary to state it in every other post. In future I'll be careful to always state that Rill wants to talk *nod*


Originally posted by lorre lorre wrote:

dear UNO noone of the coolition has said anything about not wanting to talk.
i wish you would learn the diffrence between valar and the coalition and vallar supporters and coalitionsupporters.
now to make sure noone is confused
jude is a valar supporter
TD is a coalition supporter.
the coalition itself has said nothing to indicate they are not talking. or not taking this serious.

I never wrote you don't wish to talk. I wish you would learn to read and most importantly to not take everything that isn't a praise to your ego like a personal challenge.

Quote HARMLESS vs VALAR:Ive seen things mentioned about H? and they being "bullies" or the "police" or however you want to describe it. I've also seen people gripe that there are 5 alliances going after VALAR now. 
IF VALAR is SOOOO mistreated, put up or shut up people! If you think they are mistreated, JOIN THEM.. PUBLICLY declare it.. form confederations with them. help the "underdog" with military help. I know people are doing that behind the scenes.. which is another part of the game. But come on.. if you can cry about it in the forums, quit hiding in the shadows!

So far with this attitude, H? and the whole Gankers Coalition is only proving the theorem that the biggest has all rights to behave as the bully with the smaller and the proof is in your own words and actions. You say "You are against us? Stand up and fight us". Why didn't you stand up against Spirit-Roller and fight him alone? You had to form The Gankers Coaltion to be superior in numbers and then come to the forums and play the superior and bully challenging everyone to stop you. One day you'll probably suffer the same fate and you'll whine louder than the Valar is... anyways I'm off of this discussion, after being called all sort of names turns out I was right: you messed up the whole game only to have your personal showdown with a few players. There is no "fight for the sandbox spirit of Illyriad" here, it's the exact contrary. You could have done the same without messing everything up. Your ego would have been satisfied and newbies wouldn't think that Illyriad is like any other game out there where the biggest gank the smallest.


dear UNO
LOL, ok this is getting hilarious. First everyone likes to yell to the 4 winds that no word of peace will ever come from the Valar, but when it does everyone rushes to say that it doesn't count, for a number of reasons (valid or not, is it important?). While I agree that this is in no way an official offer for negotiations, it was a good chance for coalitions to show they are seriously pursuing something and ultimately a peace, but I don't see anything remotely comparable to what you all have been claiming. Anyways TD, both declarations of war and peace treaties and sometimes even part of negotiations occur publicly. Open a freaking History book and you will perhaps realize it. Your claims about declarations of intents belonging to the past and being uninteresting at this point, while the war is ongoing, border the pathetic. If you guys intend to nominate yourselves as the defenders of Illyriad gameplay you will better try and be transparent instead of suggesting everything should be kept secret and treating this whole issue as your "thing with Azreil and a few other guys". "I will only speak with Azreil". Bla bla bla. Which if you finally start to be honest, it is exactly what this all is about: a showdown with Azreil.

So far the peace solutions provided to the members of Valar are:
1) Overthrow Azreil (technically impossibile AFAIK)
2) Quit the alliance

What if they all quit the alliance and found one named Order of the Vaiar? Will it be all fun and games? You guys aren't being serious and most of all aren't being honest.

The battlefield is a scene of constant chaos. The winner will be the one who controls that chaos, both his own and the enemies.
Napoleon Bonaparte
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2011 at 09:43
Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

/me applauds Cristina

Thanks for stepping forward, it's not an easy burden to bear.  As people have said repeatedly, the Coalition does not want the destruction of Valar, we want honest dialogue, and I commend you for being willing to start it.  Please folks, lets look for the Valar leaders who are acting like leaders, stepping up and talking to people.

Exposing oneself to criticism and being willing to take responsibility for problems that you didn't create -- that's the kind of leadership an alliance needs.  That's what Valar has needed.  It looks like that's what they're getting now.  And I think Cristina deserves applause, not scorn.

Thanks.

I agree with Rill. CristinaZah should be praised for stepping forward, not met with nonsensical statements about her not being in a position to negotiate. Don't keep on insisting on "Valar leadership should step out", etc. If you are being sincere about your efforts, then at least humor her request.

All negotiations require time. At least give her the terms she requested, all you leaders of the Harmless Gang. Then she will try to do what she can. Then you wait. Can't you wait? Please don't make it sound like you are refusing negotiations. What she did is a start and without a start you cannot get to the end.

War is ugly. Make it happy.
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