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Topic ClosedValar, Newbs and Rainbows.

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Valar, Newbs and Rainbows.
    Posted: 03 Oct 2011 at 21:52
Originally posted by Jane DarkMagic Jane DarkMagic wrote:

Your question... "Why is attacking newbs wrong?"

My question in response...  Why is attacking people who attack newbs wrong?

You are targeting people who haven't even gotten a chance to learn how to play the game yet. Why not have an actual two-sided battle with someone similar in size as you or who at least has a basic understanding of combat mechanics?  How does this create fun for you or them?

It may make you feel big and important to farm new players for resources, but I think a lot of people actually want other people to enjoy the game and the illy community to expand.  And that doesn't happen if the player is attacked the day after they get out of newbie protection.

If you want to battle it out, why not pick on someone closer to your own size?

-Jane DarkMagic


It seems like every month this debate pops up on the forums.   Attacking new players doesn't meant that the attacker wants the newbs resources, some newbs are a pain in the ass and should be attacked.  When your dog is acting up do you talk to him nicely, scold him a little bit and toss him a treat"resources" no, you scare him with coins in a can "shaking" squirt him with some water etc.

As long as theres a good reason for the attack, it should be allowed, by good reason i mean, : he knew i was in that secluded area for these four sov nodes, yet he moved there anyway, or  He's a disrespectful ass-die.
Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2011 at 11:18
Originally posted by StJude StJude wrote:


Originally posted by Jane DarkMagic Jane DarkMagic wrote:

Your question... "Why is attacking newbs wrong?"

My question in response...  Why is attacking people who attack newbs wrong?

You are targeting people who haven't even gotten a chance to learn how to play the game yet. Why not have an actual two-sided battle with someone similar in size as you or who at least has a basic understanding of combat mechanics?  How does this create fun for you or them?

It may make you feel big and important to farm new players for resources, but I think a lot of people actually want other people to enjoy the game and the illy community to expand.  And that doesn't happen if the player is attacked the day after they get out of newbie protection.

If you want to battle it out, why not pick on someone closer to your own size?

-Jane DarkMagic


Do you have any idea of what you are talking about?


I think she does. I certainly do.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2011 at 09:57
Quote There is another option which I would like to see come into play. A T1 war/tournament. A slightly smaller alliance may agree to go to war against a slightly larger alliance if the war was restricted to T1 siege as there is some loss/gain but the level of damage is very low compared to an entire town although maybe a new siege unit that also destroys barracks mage tower and consulate would be more exciting.

There's no reason why two alliances can't agree to these terms. Even in a hostile war, a suitably sporting larger alliance could agree to this. It seems like a good idea.

In response to what HM as talking about, re: zero sum games, I think that tournaments and organized wars (where a number of alliances duke it out for the heck of it) are exceptions, and can result in fun for all parties and contain significantly less butthurt.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2011 at 06:23
Originally posted by Jane DarkMagic Jane DarkMagic wrote:

Your question... "Why is attacking newbs wrong?"

My question in response...  Why is attacking people who attack newbs wrong?

You are targeting people who haven't even gotten a chance to learn how to play the game yet. Why not have an actual two-sided battle with someone similar in size as you or who at least has a basic understanding of combat mechanics?  How does this create fun for you or them?

It may make you feel big and important to farm new players for resources, but I think a lot of people actually want other people to enjoy the game and the illy community to expand.  And that doesn't happen if the player is attacked the day after they get out of newbie protection.

If you want to battle it out, why not pick on someone closer to your own size?

-Jane DarkMagic

Do you have any idea of what you are talking about?
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Jane DarkMagic View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2011 at 05:45
Your question... "Why is attacking newbs wrong?"

My question in response...  Why is attacking people who attack newbs wrong?

You are targeting people who haven't even gotten a chance to learn how to play the game yet. Why not have an actual two-sided battle with someone similar in size as you or who at least has a basic understanding of combat mechanics?  How does this create fun for you or them?

It may make you feel big and important to farm new players for resources, but I think a lot of people actually want other people to enjoy the game and the illy community to expand.  And that doesn't happen if the player is attacked the day after they get out of newbie protection.

If you want to battle it out, why not pick on someone closer to your own size?

-Jane DarkMagic
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 06:24
This is a pretty good discussion, I may actually remove my asshat in this one. Replies today/tomorrow folks when I have more time.

In the meantime, can someone fill in for me and come in here and act like a complete moran for a bit? Cheers!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 03:59
Originally posted by Erik Dirk Erik Dirk wrote:

There is another option which I would like to see come into play. A T1 war/tournament. A slightly smaller alliance may agree to go to war against a slightly larger alliance if the war was restricted to T1 siege as there is some loss/gain but the level of damage is very low compared to an entire town although maybe a new siege unit that also destroys barracks mage tower and consulate would be more exciting. 

Alternatively the old suggestion all warrior players could say to the devs "new specialising buildings are all very nice, but how about some forts or other strategic tiles scattered around the map so we have something to fight over"

+1
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 03:43
thats funny you would  say that..   thats is excactly what is happening to me.. yet you didnt seem  to care.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 03:12
I can't believe what I am reading   - a whole series of posts and paragraphs on the definition of newbe
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 03:05
Originally posted by Silent/Steadfast Silent/Steadfast wrote:

A newb, according to Urban Dictionary, is 
"A term used to describe a inexperienced gamer/person/etc. Unlike a noob, a newb is someone who actually wants to get better."

Newbs are responsible for Illyriad's growth.  As veterans find they can no longer upgrade their cities, Illyriad is dependent on new players to provide the GMs with an income (prestige) Large players don't need to use as much prestige because their cities eventually don't need to "insta-build," so new players have to be the wind beneath the game's wings.  The reason this differs from other games is that usually there is no growth limit set in the game, so players must spend continuously to keep building.  This, in turn, means that newbs are "expendable", because they aren't as crucial to the GMs paycheck.  

The reason above is a purely analytical approach to the matter, but there are also social reasons.  New players provide new forum posts, a larger playerbase which consequently leads to more ideas for the GMs to consider (some of these might be of the "what if we changed the game into an Evony clone?" type, but many aren't).  Also, new players make new alliances, which leads to more levels of complexity in the meta-game, and new players aren't viewed as "competition" because the server has no goal.  

I think that sums it up pretty well. 


I agree with 90% of this. Taking prestige out of the picture, and I think we can all begin to see why this game is 100% different from the other games out there.

I've played several 'city building' games, and this one is so different because there is an obtainable end point for every player. Once you hit 9-10 towns, you are done expanding (of course there's sov, but that's limited as well). Couple that with the enormity of the world map and you have the forumla for a 'peaceful game'. Newbs aren't targetted mainly because there is no gain in doing so. In similar games, if you take down a newb, you gain area to expand in. Here (with limited exceptions) you don't gain a thing.

Now, think about all the balancing factors here. I'm proposing that newbs are mostly safe to build up from a New Settlement to a group of at least 3-4 towns before possibly being 'in trouble of attack'. I think we can agree this is true at least 95% of the time (exceptions are when a newb does something stupid, like being aggressive or placing a new town too close to someone else).

Keep in mind those balancing factors. We've seen considerable growth of the Illy community, newbs are streaming in daily. As these newbs (and the now 'young players' such as myself) continue to grow and turn into 9-10 town players, we will start to see a rapidly diminishing area of settlement. As the world map fills in with new towns, new conflicts will arise over players due to the need to expand.

This is the point that the balancing factors become unbalanced. Once we hit the point of 'over-population' where all of the 'young players' are maxxed out along with the current 'vets' and as the newbs continue streaming in, we will be forced to start eliminating new towns in order to claim new sov spots or settle new towns.

Illy is still a very young game, because of this, and the fact that there is still plenty of open map area to settle in, and that we have a limit to how large we can each grow, both as individual players and as alliances, and we have a 'safe-haven' for new players. Once you start tearing down these factors, Illy will start to change face.

In the end, it's the dev team who make Illy the way it is. If they wish Illy to continue as it has they will need to carefully monitor when the world map begins to fill up, then offer a new server or a map expansion. If growing players don't feel rushed or squished, things remain peaceful.
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