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Baron Harkonnen View Drop Down
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    Posted: 22 Jan 2015 at 21:08
In elgea there are 29K+ squares with 6 Food & 4 Stone, and 35k+ squares with 6 Food and 4 Iron
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Brandmeister View Drop Down
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Points: 2396 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brandmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2015 at 15:03
That's an interesting point. If you have several accounts feeding you gold and resources, then a 5 food account could be a real tournament or battle monster.

Or really, the reverse. Your 5 food accounts could build items like crazy. Although it seems more popular to farm gold and just buy stuff.
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Anjire View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

Even after you have 10 cities, a 7-food city will allow you to run a higher tax rate to maintain a larger army.  So again the major consideration is whether you are going to maintain a large army in the long term or consistently be losing troops and wanting to replace them fast.

The basic tradeoff is between ability to maintain large forces or replace lost troops.  Since there tend to be large gaps between tournaments and wars, many people tend to build for the ability to maintain large armies rather than replace them quickly.

What I've seen in practice is that many times in a war or tournament players will change sovereignty flexibly:  food sov when armies are big and need tax support, military sov (paid for by lowering taxes and increasing resource production) when armies have been depleted.  With this flexible approach, the advantages of a 5/5/5/5/5 city in terms of being able to support additional military sovereignty are not as noticeable.

I haven't tried it myself, but I would imagine that for a 5-food city with an emphasis on quick troop replacements, the presence of military sov bonuses could become a significant additional factor in terms of city placement.

To expand on this - a 7 food city composition also allows you to have more maxed out equipment production buildings (spears, swords, plate, saddles...) through out your empire so that you are more self-reliant.  Mind you, if you also have 2 permasat accounts you can use those to fund your military enterprise and thus the 5 food city becomes more feasible.  

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While a city can claim up to 150 sov squares around them it can only glean the bonus from 20 of the squares. 

The Chancery only gives you a discount on the first level of sov claim but it also eats up valuable basic resources that you will be using for military support buildings and min/maxing recruitment speed.   For a military city you should be claiming at least level II on the nearest 20 squares for greatest efficiency with level III claimed on as many extra squares as research/resources permit and you are comfortable with in regards to negative values.  

I think JimJams has a link on his profile to a spreadsheet that allows you to play around with the various city parameters.  I am sure there are a number of other like documents that are floating around and would probably be a good idea for the new players to become familiar the ins and outs.  

Feel free to create an account on the Harmless Diggik forum if you wish a more detailed walk through ehrtr I can be more free to post various IGM's that I've saved and collaborations documents between players since I don't have an active game account.  

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Points: 40 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leinad__ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2015 at 13:48
I don't see how chancery can be considered totally useless for military cities; if you have, for example, an elven city close to a large forest with tons of 2% ranged prod bonuses than you can sov 1 every of them payin a few gold/res per hour and having that bonus you could not claim otherwise. let's take my only spear city (i m elf!)  #/World/Map/-584/-2600
as you can see there is a lot of Wooden Glades(2%spear bonus) at a few squares from. I m building a chancery of estate there because i considered 10+ squares of that type are present at a reasonable distance from me. Now, reading this thread i see you all consider the chancery useless so can you guys tell me if in your opinion would be worth to have one there? it would cost me way more gold and res p/h without it.....while having it i would get of course all those juicy-too far 2% bonuses!


Edited by Leinad__ - 18 Jan 2015 at 13:50
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Albatross View Drop Down
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Thanks all for comments.

My point 5 is only really of use if you have pressure on your Clay resource; sorry not to have pointed that out. And yes, needing four military discount buildings (point 4) is rare, but there is sometimes a case for it.

When generating military units, I agree that Chancery buildings are not so useful: I usually have L5 Sov at Radius 1 for basic resources, and L2 or L3 Sov for military unit generation for the remainder of the 20 available sovereignty buildings. That's distribution gives the weakest benefit of the Chancery, which is best when making more distant or distributed L1 or L2 claims - there are times I've used that, but it's a fairly outspoken strategy, and atypical of most players' needs.

That cost for Books (given by Anjire) is a good statistic; I never got around to running the numbers on that. I guess I should now sell some Books at Centrum, given that Chanceries have been declared useless for military cities :op
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Rill View Drop Down
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Points: 6903 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2015 at 22:12
I was referring to the low wood squares being undesirable for bows.
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Brandmeister View Drop Down
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Points: 2396 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brandmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2015 at 21:52
Why would a 6 wood 5 iron 4 clay be undesirable for a bow city? That's the correct distribution for Archer Fields, and typically a forest tile embedded in lots of +2% ranged unit sov.

Am I missing something?
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Rill View Drop Down
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Points: 6903 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2015 at 21:24
The most common 6/4/5/5/5 squares are low clay or low wood, which would be undesirable for elves and humans (for cav and bows).

Are there tiles that have 6 food and 4 stone or 4 iron?
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Points: 2396 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brandmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2015 at 21:19
Right, but that's the standard approach to kick above 200%. Basically what Albatross described. I wanted to know more about this 5/5/5/5/5 thing for extra speed. You guys were very helpful with the details. If I did it for troops, I still think that I would do a 6/4 with 1-2 discount buildings, and lots of sov bonuses for one unit type. Otherwise the gold per hour would get intense, even for a tournament.

No doubt I will learn a lot when I try this technique in Kul Tar. The results should be impressive, as the entire city is surrounded by solid +3% sov. If I could get that all to 50-60 sov levels, it would be +400% to +480%.
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