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Tamaeon View Drop Down
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Joined: 19 Dec 2011
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Points: 152 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tamaeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2015 at 20:57
@Brandmeister

There you go. If you lower your tax rate to 35% you should be able to claim some lvl3 sovereignty. Of course this should only be done while you build up your armies. Once you reach your target army size, you can then switch all sovs to food and increase your taxes to around 75%.

That's how most of us manage very large armies.
"How happy is the blameless vestal's lot! The world forgetting, by the world forgot. Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind! Each prayer accepted, and each wish resigned."
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Points: 2396 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brandmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2015 at 20:20
I run 65% in most tournament-ready cities. 50% right now, as I am changing some city layouts and needed the resources.
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Points: 152 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tamaeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2015 at 19:55
+1 to @Rill and @Anjire.

What tax rate are you running @Brandmeister?
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Points: 2396 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brandmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2015 at 19:31
I have never built a Chancery of Estates, that's why I asked. My bottleneck is never the gold and research point cost of extra sov. It's the basic resources consumed per hour. It didn't seem worth cutting a small part of the gold and RP cost on half of my sov (I use twenty sov 2 during building phases, and CoE only modifies the first level), at the expense of basics.
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Points: 688 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Anjire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2015 at 19:26
I did extensive experimentation with regards to the Chancery including claiming the max # of sovs for one city and a total of 500 sovereign squares overall just to do it.  My final conclusion was:  books were always the better option to buy and convert up to a price of ~2000 gold before the Chancery would be a worthwhile investment.  

Additionally, my city configurations (7 food w/various 3 resource)per Albatross' suggestion allowed for the following troop level support during non-war time only running negatives in research and with ~250% troop recruitment bonus depending on how lazy/motivated I was.  

t2 spear city 108K 
t1 bow city 108K
t2 sword city 72K
t2 cavalry city 54K

At the start of the war, I believe only one city was actually at full troop levels with the rest between 60-80%.  I had min/maxed it further to allow 84K swords to be supported with only a negative in research using 4 military discount buildings.  This was my capital so it had  the +10% to food production discovery. 

I had 10 cities with 9 dedicated to full military and the 10th running Nature's bounty giving 22% bonus food to all cities and 5 other alliance member cities.  This 10th city was still able to maintain a troop level = to at least 1/2 of the above stats. 

There are many pro's and con's to such a set up that I won't go into at this time.  This fit my play style and if I were ever to play again under the current rule set I would run a similar build.  Mind you, I would also make sure to Exodus 7 foods on top of mountain squares for the added defensive bonus bet you can also guess which race I would choose.  

~Anjire

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Points: 6903 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2015 at 19:21
Since you can only build 20 sov buildings, it's useless for production purposes to claim more than 20 sov squares.  There might be other reasons to do so, such as preventing settlement.  (Or, as Anjire did, just for the fun of it.)
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Points: 152 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tamaeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2015 at 18:36
@Albatross

Agree with points 1, 2, 6
Spot on, no additional comment needed.

Disagree with 3, 4
You don't need to build a town on a 7 food plot to afford 3 upkeep discount buildings.

I would advise against building four military discount buildings unless you intend to accumulate very large sums of troops (100k+) in a city. Reason being that the effective savings provided by each subsequent upkeep discount building is reduced by 50%; so the actual discounts will translate to...

1 building(s) = 30%
2 building(s) = 45%
3 building(s) = 52.5%
4 building(s) = 56.25%

That extra 3.75% discount would only be justified in cases of an extremely high gold upkeep. To put this into perspective... you'd be saving a mere 3750 gold p/hour on a total upkeep cost of 100k gold p/hour. Which is the approximate upkeep cost of a 50k T2 cavalry army.

Strongly disagree with 5
As said above... WARNING: the Chancery of Estates only provides discounts to level 1 sovs. Any higher and it will be burning your resources for nothing. Only build this if you're in some kind of sov battle far away, or plan to claim more than 20 lvl 1 sov squares.

It makes no sense to claim 50x lvl1 sov for military production, so the chancery is a definitive no-no for military cities.

I remember vaguely that Anjire did an experiment claiming 50 squares... there should be info and screenshots somewhere on the forums.



Edited by Tamaeon - 12 Jan 2015 at 18:39
"How happy is the blameless vestal's lot! The world forgetting, by the world forgot. Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind! Each prayer accepted, and each wish resigned."
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Points: 152 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tamaeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2015 at 18:06
Originally posted by Brandmeister Brandmeister wrote:

Another question: does this approach use a Chancery of Estates, since most sov will be level 2 or 3?
Warning: watch out when building the chancery of estates, that building only lowers the cost of sov level 1!
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Points: 2396 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brandmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2015 at 17:46
I am aware of people subsidizing during tournaments.

If the 3-plot is the limiting factor, then isn't a 4-plot 33% better? If you picked up a city square with a 6 in the major discount building resource, wouldn't that enable you to build 1-2 cost reducers without much sacrifice?

How do you subsidize between cities? If the 3-plot is deeply negative, doesn't that mean that the other resource plots are producing close to 0 because you are maximizing sov?
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Points: 1118 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albatross Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2015 at 16:29
I did some cursory calculation a couple of years ago. Although I don't have the calculations to present as evidence here now, I can outline my conclusions:
  • 5/5/5/3/7 (or variations on that) are OK for military, and will work extremely well if you pair your towns very closely, and keep them mutually topped-up.

Summary points:
  1. Decide which type of units you'll need, look up the Buildings that offer the relevant discount on military unit maintenance costs (each type makes a big drain on one of your basic resource, e.g. a L20 Cavalry Parade Groud eats 2700 clay per hour), then seek the prospective town plot that does NOT have the '3' in that resource.

  2. That '3' will then make you run a deficit in the Sovereignty buildings that accelerate unit production, so find a town plot very close by, that can over-produce that resource. You'll need to log in reliably and frequently to keep sending replenishments.

  3. The '7 food' lets your town have a high population, therefore more military discount buildings, and generate more tax.

  4. Don't be afraid to build FOUR military discount buildings. When your hourly military bill goes above 0.5m/hour, the numbers might balance out in favour of using a fourth building. Don't go building all four of these straight away; scale these up and down according to the size of your army. If you're at war, or spend armies frequently, you'll likely never need a fourth.

  5. Consider using four plots, just for Chancery or military discount buildings. It's expected you'll only be able to maintain up to two Chancery buildings, plus whatever military discount buildings take the total up to 4. So if you need a third military discount building, demolish a Chancery to make room for it. This way, you can build up research points, then run a deficit when your armies are large (when your buffer runs out, import books).

  6. To maintain very large armies, you'll need to subsidise your town with gold. This is a flexible resource, without storage limits, so don't worry about where this comes from, provided it can be held at the town in large amounts, and you can keep it topped-up.
If you take all the above into account when settling your new military town, you'll likely get the best result. Example: http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/World/Map/-173/229/6

Your mileage will differ. I'd be interested to see if anyone else runs deficits (and supply from elsewhere) in order to specialize effectively.


Edited by Albatross - 12 Jan 2015 at 16:35
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