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Brandmeister 
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Joined: 12 Oct 2012 Location: Laoshin Status: Offline Points: 2396 |
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 Posted: 12 Jan 2015 at 13:31 |
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Another question: does this approach use a Chancery of Estates, since most sov will be level 2 or 3?
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Brandmeister
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Joined: 12 Oct 2012 Location: Laoshin Status: Offline Points: 2396 |
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Posted: 12 Jan 2015 at 13:06 |
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Okay, if you might switch army types multiple times, then I guess the discount buildings are irrelevant. And if you are quoting 14k as the 5 food city size, that is 25% taxes (100% resource production).
I am interested enough to try the technique. I have wanted to rebuild Ritterrustung Platz for quite some time, as the 2 iron and 2 stone have severely limited the sov there. Perhaps I will have it Terraformed to a 5/5/5/5/5 distribution, so I can see this approach firsthand. |
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Tamaeon
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Joined: 19 Dec 2011 Location: Centrum Status: Offline Points: 152 |
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Posted: 12 Jan 2015 at 07:26 |
Troop sovereignty should be the last thing on the checklist because troop production will almost always be ad hoc. In a war situation for example, you'll find that troop production will be adapted to meet the needs of the moment. If you're fighting an adversary on mountains you'll find cavalry and infantry units to be pretty useless. And thus, terrain becomes the main consideration. The main advantage of 5 food cities is that it allows for maximum flexibility, as a player will be able to produce any kind of unit at 250%+ rates if needed. The main drawback, the maximum city size of around 10k to 14k when producing troops at full potential. As for troop sov; it becomes less important when you consider that actual troop production will depend on the needs of the moment. A 2% production bonus p/level becomes negligible if you have to defend a forest square with archers.
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"How happy is the blameless vestal's lot! The world forgetting, by the world forgot. Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind! Each prayer accepted, and each wish resigned."
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Brandmeister
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Posted: 12 Jan 2015 at 06:27 |
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Tamaeon, if you are building a 5 food city to maximize sov structures, why would troop sov be the last thing you consider?
When you use the 5 food approach, do you still use infantry quarters and other upkeep discount buildings? Doesn't having 2 or 3 really cut into the possible sov? What tax rate do you set? I had been assuming 0% or otherwise very low. |
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KillerPoodle
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Joined: 23 Feb 2010 Status: Offline Points: 1853 |
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Posted: 12 Jan 2015 at 04:01 |
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I looked at 6 food squares pretty seriously towards the end of the war. 5 food is really restrictive in terms of buildings that I felt I really wanted to have at a high level etc.
The issue was that as far as I remember finding 6 food in the distribution that is useful is pretty hard. |
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"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM
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Tamaeon
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Joined: 19 Dec 2011 Location: Centrum Status: Offline Points: 152 |
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Posted: 11 Jan 2015 at 21:57 |
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5 equal offers by far the most flexibility.
The choice ultimately comes down to the troop upkeep reduction buildings. There is one for each type of unit in the game. These buildings consume 2 resources in addition to food. Main resource consumption: 2700/h Secondary resource consumption: 1100/h As Rill pointed out; generally players will lower taxes and increase military sovereignty when their armies have been depleted; then gradually switch military sovereignty for food sovereignty, as their armies grow in numbers. The reason for this is that military sovereignty requires basic resources (in addition to gold and RP) for upkeep. In contrast, basic resource sovereignty (including food) only requires RP and gold. Military upkeep reduction buildings can reduce total gold upkeep by up to 52.5%, which ultimately makes them the most important factor in deciding what kind of troops to build in each city. The sovereignty plots around a city should be the very last thing to consider when choosing what kind of troops to build.
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"How happy is the blameless vestal's lot! The world forgetting, by the world forgot. Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind! Each prayer accepted, and each wish resigned."
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Brandmeister
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Posted: 11 Jan 2015 at 20:51 |
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I would like to point out that with multiple cities, you don't have to make them all the same. It is entirely possible to mix some 7 food cities for larger peacetime armies, with these theoretical production-focused cities for rapid troop replacement.
Solanar, a middle ground might look like a forest tile favored by elves: 6 wood, 4 clay, 5 iron, 5 stone, 5 food. That raises the 3 resource bottleneck to 4 (a 33% gain). It also allows for at least 1 archer's field. Forests tend to have lots of +2% ranged sov or +2% spear sov in large clusters. Presumably you could find a hill with 6 clay, 5 iron for a spear city there. Or just go all 5's. Maybe a 6 food tile is a balance between the two approaches, assuming there is at least 4 of every resource. |
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Rill
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Posted: 11 Jan 2015 at 20:30 |
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Even after you have 10 cities, a 7-food city will allow you to run a higher tax rate to maintain a larger army. So again the major consideration is whether you are going to maintain a large army in the long term or consistently be losing troops and wanting to replace them fast.
The basic tradeoff is between ability to maintain large forces or replace lost troops. Since there tend to be large gaps between tournaments and wars, many people tend to build for the ability to maintain large armies rather than replace them quickly. What I've seen in practice is that many times in a war or tournament players will change sovereignty flexibly: food sov when armies are big and need tax support, military sov (paid for by lowering taxes and increasing resource production) when armies have been depleted. With this flexible approach, the advantages of a 5/5/5/5/5 city in terms of being able to support additional military sovereignty are not as noticeable. I haven't tried it myself, but I would imagine that for a 5-food city with an emphasis on quick troop replacements, the presence of military sov bonuses could become a significant additional factor in terms of city placement.
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Solanar
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Posted: 11 Jan 2015 at 19:48 |
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In regards to the "Likely never hit 10 cities" thing, what about once you already have 10 cities? I'm apt to relocate everything in the near future. When I'm looking at places to move to, I find myself less concerned about 7 food than city placement. I suppose it's possible to terraform the spots, but in all honesty, it feels like perhaps the effort is more than the results will be worth. A focused city can accomplish a lot without needing every possible plot at level 20, and moreso when your other 9 cities are nearby and can compensate for deficiencies. I haven't done the math, but I find myself pretty comfortable with the idea of cities either of 7 food, the 5/5/5/5/5 variety, or something in between.
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Brandmeister
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Posted: 24 Dec 2014 at 16:18 |
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The 7 food cities to which I referred were the typical 5/5/5/3/7. That configuration probably represents 80% of Elgea, minimum. Most such cities will have +150% to +200% troop sov when they are building troops for a tournament. Some players temporarily drive that higher by going negative in research points, or cutting taxes and suffering a large gold deficit, or both.
The "least necessary resource" for choosing the 3 is whatever resource your military buildings don't use. Infantry quarters use stone and iron, so it would be a 3 wood or 3 clay city. Cavalry parade grounds use wood and clay, so they would be a 3 iron or 3 stone city. I don't know what's inside a 5/5/5/5/5 city. You'd have to ask someone who uses them (if anyone). I would be curious if they have military or diplomacy buildings inside, as those would ruin the symmetry of the 5 resource plots. |
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Brandmeister wrote: