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Tamaeon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tamaeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2015 at 07:26
Originally posted by Brandmeister Brandmeister wrote:

Tamaeon, if you are building a 5 food city to maximize sov structures, why would troop sov be the last thing you consider?

When you use the 5 food approach, do you still use infantry quarters and other upkeep discount buildings? Doesn't having 2 or 3 really cut into the possible sov? What tax rate do you set? I had been assuming 0% or otherwise very low.

Troop sovereignty should be the last thing on the checklist because troop production will almost always be ad hoc. In a war situation for example, you'll find that troop production will be adapted to meet the needs of the moment. If you're fighting an adversary on mountains you'll find cavalry and infantry units to be pretty useless. And thus, terrain becomes the main consideration.

The main advantage of 5 food cities is that it allows for maximum flexibility, as a player will be able to produce any kind of unit at 250%+ rates if needed. The main drawback, the maximum city size of around 10k to 14k when producing troops at full potential.

As for troop sov; it becomes less important when you consider that actual troop production will depend on the needs of the moment. A 2% production bonus p/level becomes negligible if you have to defend a forest square with archers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brandmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2015 at 13:06
Okay, if you might switch army types multiple times, then I guess the discount buildings are irrelevant. And if you are quoting 14k as the 5 food city size, that is 25% taxes (100% resource production).

I am interested enough to try the technique. I have wanted to rebuild Ritterrustung Platz for quite some time, as the 2 iron and 2 stone have severely limited the sov there. Perhaps I will have it Terraformed to a 5/5/5/5/5 distribution, so I can see this approach firsthand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brandmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2015 at 13:31
Another question: does this approach use a Chancery of Estates, since most sov will be level 2 or 3?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albatross Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2015 at 16:29
I did some cursory calculation a couple of years ago. Although I don't have the calculations to present as evidence here now, I can outline my conclusions:
  • 5/5/5/3/7 (or variations on that) are OK for military, and will work extremely well if you pair your towns very closely, and keep them mutually topped-up.

Summary points:
  1. Decide which type of units you'll need, look up the Buildings that offer the relevant discount on military unit maintenance costs (each type makes a big drain on one of your basic resource, e.g. a L20 Cavalry Parade Groud eats 2700 clay per hour), then seek the prospective town plot that does NOT have the '3' in that resource.

  2. That '3' will then make you run a deficit in the Sovereignty buildings that accelerate unit production, so find a town plot very close by, that can over-produce that resource. You'll need to log in reliably and frequently to keep sending replenishments.

  3. The '7 food' lets your town have a high population, therefore more military discount buildings, and generate more tax.

  4. Don't be afraid to build FOUR military discount buildings. When your hourly military bill goes above 0.5m/hour, the numbers might balance out in favour of using a fourth building. Don't go building all four of these straight away; scale these up and down according to the size of your army. If you're at war, or spend armies frequently, you'll likely never need a fourth.

  5. Consider using four plots, just for Chancery or military discount buildings. It's expected you'll only be able to maintain up to two Chancery buildings, plus whatever military discount buildings take the total up to 4. So if you need a third military discount building, demolish a Chancery to make room for it. This way, you can build up research points, then run a deficit when your armies are large (when your buffer runs out, import books).

  6. To maintain very large armies, you'll need to subsidise your town with gold. This is a flexible resource, without storage limits, so don't worry about where this comes from, provided it can be held at the town in large amounts, and you can keep it topped-up.
If you take all the above into account when settling your new military town, you'll likely get the best result. Example: http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/World/Map/-173/229/6

Your mileage will differ. I'd be interested to see if anyone else runs deficits (and supply from elsewhere) in order to specialize effectively.


Edited by Albatross - 12 Jan 2015 at 16:35
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brandmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2015 at 17:46
I am aware of people subsidizing during tournaments.

If the 3-plot is the limiting factor, then isn't a 4-plot 33% better? If you picked up a city square with a 6 in the major discount building resource, wouldn't that enable you to build 1-2 cost reducers without much sacrifice?

How do you subsidize between cities? If the 3-plot is deeply negative, doesn't that mean that the other resource plots are producing close to 0 because you are maximizing sov?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tamaeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2015 at 18:06
Originally posted by Brandmeister Brandmeister wrote:

Another question: does this approach use a Chancery of Estates, since most sov will be level 2 or 3?
Warning: watch out when building the chancery of estates, that building only lowers the cost of sov level 1!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tamaeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2015 at 18:36
@Albatross

Agree with points 1, 2, 6
Spot on, no additional comment needed.

Disagree with 3, 4
You don't need to build a town on a 7 food plot to afford 3 upkeep discount buildings.

I would advise against building four military discount buildings unless you intend to accumulate very large sums of troops (100k+) in a city. Reason being that the effective savings provided by each subsequent upkeep discount building is reduced by 50%; so the actual discounts will translate to...

1 building(s) = 30%
2 building(s) = 45%
3 building(s) = 52.5%
4 building(s) = 56.25%

That extra 3.75% discount would only be justified in cases of an extremely high gold upkeep. To put this into perspective... you'd be saving a mere 3750 gold p/hour on a total upkeep cost of 100k gold p/hour. Which is the approximate upkeep cost of a 50k T2 cavalry army.

Strongly disagree with 5
As said above... WARNING: the Chancery of Estates only provides discounts to level 1 sovs. Any higher and it will be burning your resources for nothing. Only build this if you're in some kind of sov battle far away, or plan to claim more than 20 lvl 1 sov squares.

It makes no sense to claim 50x lvl1 sov for military production, so the chancery is a definitive no-no for military cities.

I remember vaguely that Anjire did an experiment claiming 50 squares... there should be info and screenshots somewhere on the forums.



Edited by Tamaeon - 12 Jan 2015 at 18:39
"How happy is the blameless vestal's lot! The world forgetting, by the world forgot. Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind! Each prayer accepted, and each wish resigned."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2015 at 19:21
Since you can only build 20 sov buildings, it's useless for production purposes to claim more than 20 sov squares.  There might be other reasons to do so, such as preventing settlement.  (Or, as Anjire did, just for the fun of it.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Anjire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2015 at 19:26
I did extensive experimentation with regards to the Chancery including claiming the max # of sovs for one city and a total of 500 sovereign squares overall just to do it.  My final conclusion was:  books were always the better option to buy and convert up to a price of ~2000 gold before the Chancery would be a worthwhile investment.  

Additionally, my city configurations (7 food w/various 3 resource)per Albatross' suggestion allowed for the following troop level support during non-war time only running negatives in research and with ~250% troop recruitment bonus depending on how lazy/motivated I was.  

t2 spear city 108K 
t1 bow city 108K
t2 sword city 72K
t2 cavalry city 54K

At the start of the war, I believe only one city was actually at full troop levels with the rest between 60-80%.  I had min/maxed it further to allow 84K swords to be supported with only a negative in research using 4 military discount buildings.  This was my capital so it had  the +10% to food production discovery. 

I had 10 cities with 9 dedicated to full military and the 10th running Nature's bounty giving 22% bonus food to all cities and 5 other alliance member cities.  This 10th city was still able to maintain a troop level = to at least 1/2 of the above stats. 

There are many pro's and con's to such a set up that I won't go into at this time.  This fit my play style and if I were ever to play again under the current rule set I would run a similar build.  Mind you, I would also make sure to Exodus 7 foods on top of mountain squares for the added defensive bonus bet you can also guess which race I would choose.  

~Anjire

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brandmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2015 at 19:31
I have never built a Chancery of Estates, that's why I asked. My bottleneck is never the gold and research point cost of extra sov. It's the basic resources consumed per hour. It didn't seem worth cutting a small part of the gold and RP cost on half of my sov (I use twenty sov 2 during building phases, and CoE only modifies the first level), at the expense of basics.
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