Trade Improvements 2

ajqtrz wrote: If he thinks that because I'm not a big trader I cannot analyze the trade situation he would have a hard time logically showing that experience doing something means you automatically understand it's underlying structure or not doing means you don't understand the structure.

Are you seriously suggesting that recommendations are completely valid in the absence of actual experience? Your thesis is that trade is too centralized in Centrum, and that other hubs are under-utilized for trade. It's obvious that you haven't done hardly any hub trading. Therefore I find it quite valid to challenge your assertion that hubs are under-utilized, especially since it conflicts with my personal empirical evidence. How have you arrived at this conclusion, if not by experience? Utilization is something observed over time, and via interaction--if not your interaction, then whose?

ajqtrz wrote: Requiring such a relationship would be like requiring the race car driver design the engine or the engine designer drive the car when, in fact, it may be that the engine designer can't even drive and the driver doesn't know the least thing about engine design.

This metaphor is a strawman argument. A better metaphor would be a 16 year old driver educating his parents on the right way to drive a car. While it is certainly possible that such a teenager makes some valid points, that does not seem very likely. In such a situation, it is customary to question just how these ideas were developed. Theoretical ideas can be useful, but they should be viewed with healthy skepticism if those ideas do not appear to be informed by practical experience. That goes double when those ideas appear to clash directly with empirical observations to the contrary.

abstractdream wrote: I (NOT a trader) have a different opinion on this (surprise!). Centrum as the main trade hub is logical and useful and isn't a problem as far as I can tell, but a benefit to all. It centralizes trade so everyone knows where to go to get what they need instead of having to search all around or ask in GC. As for the rest of the hubs, they are most useful as distribution hubs for alliances. I know they're useful for storing your stuff, and I recommend it as the best way to avoid theft but hubs come into their own when an alliance clustered around one uses it to move things around where they're needed. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

While Count Rupert is probably correct that things are stored outside of Centrum, he does mention that traders are in Centrum because that's where the traders are who do trading....which was my point to begin with.  It's true, as he states, that other hubs contain things, but other hubs are not usually active trade hubs.  To stimulate trade you need to distribute trade and to do that you need to either increase the cost of storing resources in Centrum or restrict how much you can store there (and thus force you to do some buying and selling elsewhere).  Personally the first option is much easier to implement as the fees collected are collected at the sale and could just be raised.  The latter would be harder to implement and not a guarantee that trade would be more distributed.  And while Brandmeister and PhoenixFire have experienced higher trade levels at some hubs, I do think they can admit that Centrum trades do dwarf anything anywhere else.

My response to Solanar is pretty much covered my first post, "Trade Improvements" and I think he and I agree pretty much, though it may be we come to different conclusions as to why crafting and using crafted items is not a high use activity.

Finally, abstractdream is probably correct to say it's not a problem ...for him/her.  The idea the we all need to search to find what we want may underscore the problem as if the hubs were more even you would see other hubs listed when you look in the markets for an item...right no we usually see only Centrum listed and abstractdream may, therefore be assuming that the market only shows Centrum.    And while it may be that the other hubs are distribution hubs for alliances it is also true that whatever you can do in Centrum you should be able to do in all other hubs...but cannot because nobody really trades in other hubs for the most part.. which is my original point.  One wonders how things would be if your own local hub had as much activity as Centrum.  Certainly things would move faster and often you could receive your goods much faster.

I do, also, wish to thank every body for their responses.  I'm certain the devs read these things and consider what the players are saying...so we end up, in the long run,...getting the game we desire.

AJ

Half the reason trade in illy is borked from the beginning is lack of necessity. There is no real need for it. Before trade hubs, when all trade was city based, few people bothered. Vets can produce for themselves, newbs don't have sufficient cash to impact trade. The structure of illy (lack of true rarity and limited bottlenecks) makes trade and gold no more than a mini game 99% of the time. It's only during tourneys or the few large wars that even individual players run low, and the market never runs dry. Crafted gear, while neat, lacks sufficient depth or impact. Rarity and effort keeps the cost high, but the value isn't enough for most people to bother. Except for people who simply enjoy it, or for the occasional shortcut, the markets just don't matter.

I have found multiple Hubs that are used frequently but none of them are quite as active as centrum.