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No-Claim Land Claims
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Dungshoveleux View Drop Down
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    Posted: 12 Jun 2015 at 20:52
The position of DS on the leader board confers NO special privilidges as far as I am aware, nor does it give DS the right to tell other alliances what to do.  By the same logic, other claiming alliances could be considered to have no right to claim lands which they do not fully occupy.  If a region has no free space >10 squares from any of the sole occupying allannce then I think it is "claimed".  A claim is irrelevant unless the claiming alliance intends to enforce them. I think that this is the message DS are sending.

Edited by Dungshoveleux - 12 Jun 2015 at 20:54
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Angrim View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Thorn Thorn wrote:

I just read the alliance page of the head alliance in illyriad (Dark Shade)which reads they will honor no land claims.
"head alliance" implies some sort of hierarchy based on alliance rank. i assure you there never has been any such structure here. Dark Shade is a large alliance which casts a long shadow (sorry, couldn't resist) in the game. being #1 in the alliance ranking has no formal benefit.
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i play this as a competitive game and enjoy seeing new strategies happening...the old way of playingwas gettingstale and promotes seldom needto actually log into the game. the claiming of land seems to have increased activity of players so i look at that as a benifit to the game...personally dont get oh i going to war against land claim alliances or the hostility against them. remember war is only one part of the competitive play in this strategy game and i always use other aspects of game play to cause the demise of my enemies...stop the anti war stuff, its part of the game and hopefully the devs change functions so it is less destructive, less predictable, and more fun...i say yes to the land claims cause they saving our game!
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I claim all lands that haven't been claim yet!! :D
Disclaimer: The above is jcx|orcboy's personal opinion and is not the opinion or policy of Harmless? [H?] or of the little green men that have been following him all day.

jcx in H? | orcboy in H?
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If the other party in the conflict is also made up of people who would enjoy having a war, then the "I declare war with you because I think it will be fun" strategy could work out reasonably well, assuming that both sides are also willing to stop when one or the other ceases to have fun.
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honestly i dont even know why people are trying to come up with a "valid" reason to start a war.  in my opinion this is a game, if you want to start a war just say "hey, i want to declare war with you because i think it will be fun."  that is pretty much the most "valid" reason i can come up with.  granted that didnt work too well in the long run with NC but they did have some fun while it lasted.
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Originally posted by abstractdream abstractdream wrote:

I guess the next question is will an alliance proclaiming to be against claims simply send cities to test it and see what happens or will they use their proclamation as an excuse to attack players they already wish they could attack for no other reason than their own distaste?


I guess it differs for each claim.

BB seems to have made a claim for their own. T-SC seems to have done the same. As far as I can tell I have seen no aggressive stances towards existing neighbours.

The situation with the SIN claim is a little different. If one takes the effort of actually reading the claim, one sees that it is actually a claim on behalf of three alliances in a relatively small area, namely Fam, HALO and SIN, who (and I bothered to check this) are in a confed, probably (I assume) to settle and not be bothered by the 10 sq. Can't blame them for not wanting new settlers to mess that up. I also haven't seen anything about existing 3rd parties having to move out. I did spot a Crow there.

But hey, why should one actually read a claim and check the local situation? Crying Foul is so much easier if one can do so unfounded. Wink

We've seen mine possession and sov used as a 'valid' reason to start a war in the past. So I guess the 'validity' bar can still be put lower. We'll see Smile
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I think one of the major issues that everyone should consider with the current land claims is that they're currently in a very undeveloped and chaotic stage. There is no set formula for land claims, nor any guiding principles as to how they should be enforced or what is considered 'reasonable' in their use.

I suspect that we're going to see a homogenization of the land claims process as approaches are tried, found wanting, and new approaches are considered. That's not going to happen overnight though, and until time dictates best practice a variety of approaches suited to individual needs is going to dominate BL land claims.

One long-term development of land claims that I consider likely is that land claims in the BL will cease to matter except for new or growing alliances who are staking out their initial core. Currently all BL alliances are new or growing, but that won't always be true, and the incentive for a land claim in an already established alliance that is really not taking in a great deal of new players and has already firmly settled their core is unlikely to be strong. I could be totally wrong on that, but - and this is the crucial point - nobody knows how they'll develop or what is the most beneficial tweak to the core concept of a land claim.

It's possible that a land claim might be tweaked in such a way as to make it fundamentally objectionable, as older land claims were when they obliged players to remove their existing cities from a particular area. None of the current land claims are this objectionable, and I hope that no future land claim attempts anything of the sort.

TVM's no-claim land claim is an interesting solution to the same problem that obliges alliances concerned with their positioning to automatically refuse permission to settle within 10 squares of any of their towns. You can't allow potential enemies to set up shop right on your doorstep.

The biggest difficulty with the no-claim land claim is really that it hinders new alliances making a land claim. I'm strongly of the opinion that land claims should come to dominate BL and be the gold standard for alliances throughout the continent. This impedes that sort of widespread development.

Is this the right balance between allowing widespread land claims and permitting alliances to guard their core zones with buffers? I don't believe that it is, but until we find the right mix of permissiveness and ensuring the security of our alliance mates (present and future) this sort of experimentation with land claims should be encouraged.
"May have been the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one." - Captain Malcolm Reynolds
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abstractdream View Drop Down
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Points: 1857 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote abstractdream Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2015 at 17:29
I guess the next question is will an alliance proclaiming to be against claims simply send cities to test it and see what happens or will they use their proclamation as an excuse to attack players they already wish they could attack for no other reason than their own distaste?
Bonfyr Verboo
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Jejune View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Thorn Thorn wrote:

I just read the alliance page of the head alliance in illyriad (Dark Shade)which reads they will honor no land claims. Which brings to mind the question, Is a land claim only as good as what you can back militarily? Are those who are in a confed ready to fight for your land claim as well?

I cannot answer your second question, but for the first: yes. There is no official claiming system. The only thing that governs the legitimacy of a claim is an alliance's ability and willingness to defend it.

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