Actions against Myll of [Wave]

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As many may know, the Tsunami [WAVE] alliance has for some time been flaunting the common convention in Illyriad that the 10 square radius around a city is held to be area that is not to be settled without first getting the permission of the Lord of that realm.  We have noticed these transgressions on more than one occasion and have until now let it slide.

In this latest case, Gaia had used the Sov 5 process to place a city within the 10 of two other cities, 6 squares from one.   As she is a new player, it was pointed out to her that it is not considered proper etiquette.  She was politely asked to move it and offered resource aid if she needed it.   As it turns out, she was instructed to do so by her alliance leader Myll. 

Speaking with Myll, we learned that they do not intend to honor any 10 square boundaries and will continue to slip their cities in where they have no right to be. After discussions with multiple members of their leadership, we feel that there is no diplomatic way to get them to change their course. 

Additionally, the offending player in this instance, Gaia, cannot truly be found at fault, as she is a newer player and was following the orders of her alliance leader and is continuing to do so.  It would be unfair of us in this case to raze her city. Instead we have come to the decision to place the blame where it is truly due. 

We have decided instead, to begin Razing Myll’s cities, until all improperly placed cities are moved and we have assurances from the alliance that the practice will cease.  Let it be known that we harbor no ill will towards the rest of the Tsunami alliance.  None of their other members will be bothered by us unless they join in the battle or support Myll (either with military or diplomatic units). 

We in Fairy/Fairi are not aggressively militaristic, but we will stand up for our sovereignty and the common accords that we as a community have put in place.  This notice is just that, a notice to let interested parties know that these attacks are not aggressive and that diplomatic avenues have been tried and have been rejected.

Hopefully Myll will see the error of his ways and correct his alliance’s stance on this issue. 

Sincerely, 

Bimoda

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Bimoda Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Wordsmith Joined: 04 Jun 2014 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 121	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bimoda Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Actions against Myll of [Wave] Posted: 10 Jul 2014 at 00:37
	As many may know, the Tsunami [WAVE] alliance has for some time been flaunting the common convention in Illyriad that the 10 square radius around a city is held to be area that is not to be settled without first getting the permission of the Lord of that realm. We have noticed these transgressions on more than one occasion and have until now let it slide. In this latest case, Gaia had used the Sov 5 process to place a city within the 10 of two other cities, 6 squares from one. As she is a new player, it was pointed out to her that it is not considered proper etiquette. She was politely asked to move it and offered resource aid if she needed it. As it turns out, she was instructed to do so by her alliance leader Myll. Speaking with Myll, we learned that they do not intend to honor any 10 square boundaries and will continue to slip their cities in where they have no right to be. After discussions with multiple members of their leadership, we feel that there is no diplomatic way to get them to change their course. Additionally, the offending player in this instance, Gaia, cannot truly be found at fault, as she is a newer player and was following the orders of her alliance leader and is continuing to do so. It would be unfair of us in this case to raze her city. Instead we have come to the decision to place the blame where it is truly due. We have decided instead, to begin Razing Myll’s cities, until all improperly placed cities are moved and we have assurances from the alliance that the practice will cease. Let it be known that we harbor no ill will towards the rest of the Tsunami alliance. None of their other members will be bothered by us unless they join in the battle or support Myll (either with military or diplomatic units). We in Fairy/Fairi are not aggressively militaristic, but we will stand up for our sovereignty and the common accords that we as a community have put in place. This notice is just that, a notice to let interested parties know that these attacks are not aggressive and that diplomatic avenues have been tried and have been rejected. Hopefully Myll will see the error of his ways and correct his alliance’s stance on this issue. Sincerely, Bimoda

abstractdream Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Postmaster General Joined: 02 Oct 2011 Location: Oarnamly Status: Offline Points: 1857	Post Options Post Reply Quote abstractdream Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jul 2014 at 01:40
	Good luck. I don't think you'll get much support on this overall...the ten square rule is just about a lost cause. In my opinion, six squares is still quite doable. A city claiming 20 sov squares can get along quite well so long as no other city is closer than 4 or 5 squares. Closer than that cannot be logically argued by anyone, in my opinion. I think most level headed players will accept as close as 8 without much trouble. I would have a problem with an alliance settling within my own alliance's hub in a wholesale way, but a city here or there shouldn't be an issue...in my opinion.
	Bonfyr Verboo

Brandmeister Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Postmaster General Joined: 12 Oct 2012 Location: Laoshin Status: Offline Points: 2396	Post Options Post Reply Quote Brandmeister Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jul 2014 at 01:46
	I haven't been a fan of WAVE's policy about ignoring sov claims on mines and herbs. However, the Fairy city in question here is right on top of Tringar Trading Post. When you place cities immediately adjacent to a faction hub, I think you weaken your claim to 10 squares. No individual or alliance can truly own a hub, as evidenced by Centrum. There are very few friendly factions in the Wastes, which strengthens the case for sharing the hub area. It's impolite not to request settlement permission, but given the specific circumstances, I'd say the reaction is somewhat excessive.

Brandmeister Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Postmaster General Joined: 12 Oct 2012 Location: Laoshin Status: Offline Points: 2396	Post Options Post Reply Quote Brandmeister Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jul 2014 at 01:48
	@abstract: the problem with that suggestion as a blanket policy is that a single unallied city nearby will automatically block friendly exodus.

Bimoda Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Wordsmith Joined: 04 Jun 2014 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 121	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bimoda Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jul 2014 at 01:53
	Unfortunately, that is not the only city that they've done this with and they made clear that the policy would continue. It is not just the spot by the Hub.

Bimoda Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Wordsmith Joined: 04 Jun 2014 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 121	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bimoda Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jul 2014 at 02:03
	@abstract: With the 10 square rule for exodusing, it makes no sense to use a 6 square rule. As it is the community consensus is 10 squares. We have 10 squares posted in our alliance profile. They are aware that it is against the standard for players in the game and they choose to blatantly continue with their policy. Game wise, they are correct, there is nothing keeping them from doing it. Also correct is the fact that we have the right to take action against Myll for doing it. The worst part is he is indoctrinating new players into his style of play that will make it more of a problem in the future if it is not quelled now.

abstractdream Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Postmaster General Joined: 02 Oct 2011 Location: Oarnamly Status: Offline Points: 1857	Post Options Post Reply Quote abstractdream Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jul 2014 at 03:35
	Don't mistake my doubt about your claim for a dove approach. I believe if you believe, you should do what you believe is right. If you are willing to commit your account(s) to the cause, more power to you. I don't think the majority of players agree with your statements, or mine for that matter. Most will urge negotiation. I say pull the trigger if you are willing to accept the results. It is certainly true that a nearby unallied city will block friendly exodus. The obvious answer is to make a NAP. I think the only way to effectively fight an alliance encroaching on your territory is to lay claim to it with cities. If they are determined to continue sending in lots of cities, they will be at a distinct disadvantage with the maximum level 12 everything and 5 day military moratorium imposed on cities after exodus. Edited by abstractdream - 10 Jul 2014 at 03:46
	Bonfyr Verboo

abstractdream Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Postmaster General Joined: 02 Oct 2011 Location: Oarnamly Status: Offline Points: 1857	Post Options Post Reply Quote abstractdream Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jul 2014 at 03:43
	By the way, semantics here BUT... The only rule in effect is the game mechanics rule. Everything else is policy. Alliances have policies and it is up to them to determine how far they are willing to go to enforce said policies.
	Bonfyr Verboo

Aquennomi Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List New Poster Joined: 26 Jul 2012 Location: IN Status: Offline Points: 32	Post Options Post Reply Quote Aquennomi Report Post Thanks(1) Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jul 2014 at 03:50
	Negotiation tried abstract. Was mentioned in initial post.

Gemley Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Postmaster Joined: 20 Feb 2011 Location: Ralidor Status: Offline Points: 586	Post Options Post Reply Quote Gemley Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jul 2014 at 03:51
	I am glad Fairy is standing up for themselves. Good luck in the fight, and may this matter be settled swiftly before too much blood is shed.
	�I do not love the bright sword for it's sharpness, nor the arrow for it's swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend� - J.R.R. Tolkien