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Let's Discuss the 10 sq rule with settlers
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Diva View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 Apr 2014 at 00:09
I'd like the discussion here and perhaps add a poll shortly. If anyone has looked at the map lately, looking for prime spots to move, your eyes will certainly cross. 

For the incoming new players, and probably more from LoU soon, there is hardly enough abandoneds to go around before we get the next clearing of spots. People are now looking for spots to settle, as newbs they usually need a 2nd city to achieve growth, and the quickest way is settling out of the rings... many have started their 2nd city with this in mind to get out of the Newb Rings.

Broken Lands has seen more broken promises, but hey we are still here. Elgea has no extra viable land anymore that isn't in someone's 10 square circumference.

The 10sq rule is imposed by the game itself, with Tenaril and Exodus. And it has been a rigid rule to settlers by those who feel it is set in stone.

We do need to redefine the settler's position and try to see where we can compromise. It was stated that you don't need 10sq circumference around any city as we can only sov 20 squares.

So do we turn away new players because we can't help them? Tell them to wait for 30 days and HOPE nine other players aren't headed to the same square? IMHO, the 10sq rule for settlers needs to be discussed, its old and outdated.

Perhaps your say will make a change.

Diva
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I say we stop telling all the newbs to build new towns and move out of the newb circle. Let them figure it out on their own.

The 10 sq. rule needs to stay in place, even expanded on. No way am I going to allow another town within my 10x10.

Go find one of the hundreds of dead games out there that have all the cities built on top of each other. I didn't stay in this game for nearly 3 years just to see it destroyed by a bunch of huggers.
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Whilst almost all prime real estate has already been taken up by either older players or the 10sq circles around their cities, there remains plenty of land around the map with up to 15 squares free in every direction.

"...Elgea has no extra viable land anymore that isn't in someone's 10 square circumference.
We do need to redefine the settler's position and try to see where we can compromise. It was stated that you don't need 10sq circumference around any city as we can only sov 20 squares."

-- Or perhaps we should start thinking of city expansion differently: instead of searching for those great (and mostly occupied) 7-food sites with good sov, just find an open space** and plonk down (almost) all of your cities there. I've found that many cities close together in 'nonviable' land inspire much better growth compared to scattering your cities around by only settling prime spots; so much so that I dislike settling further than 4sq's away from another city of my own, or my alliance's.

** I can find plenty of spots all over the map where there are no cities for 15 squares in any direction. While not considered prime land, these parts have massive potential if you don't mind clustering your cities properly.

"But I don't want to cluster my cities!", I hear some of you say. Well then, you'd simply have to negotiate for one of the massive number of great locations within 10sq's of another player. Something you might find very easy if you only want to settle a single city in a specific area.
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I agree with Tom. Polite settlement requests are usually met with approval, within reason. There is no reason to assume everyone is hostile to requests just by looking at the map and assuming 10 squares.

Also, it is my belief that most players why cry about not getting perfect 7 food spots with 20 food dolmens are generally inept players anyway. You need the extra sov for size, and the extra size for bigger armies. Until you're a skilled tournament (or real) Illyriad warrior, those perfect locations are irrelevant to your level of ability. If you want size for size's sake, this isn't really the game for that.
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  I am happy to see this being discussed. Though I am on the other end of the spectrum in my opinion, I want to thank Diva for starting this thread.

  In the nearly 3 years I have been in Illy I have always followed the 10 square rule as has my alliance. We recently exo'ed around 30 cities to better spots in our regional hubs mostly in and around Keshsalia and Perrigor. We did so in about a months time and without violating anyones 10 squares. I will admit that finding a good square for settlement is not as easy as when I was a newb. However it is entirely possible.
    
   My alt is in a leadership position within a training alliance and the 10 square rule is observed there as well. It takes a bit of time to find our newbs spots suitable to their needs however it is accomplished by a few dedicated members who's only job is to find spots for these new players. (I absolutely hate looking for settlement spots as I don't have the patiences so I am more than grateful of their efforts)

  So while I understand your frustration I don't see why this rule needs to be changed as it is still possible to find good and even great spots without breaking the 10 square rule. I can say for 100% certainty that TO will not change their policy in regards to settlement and will continue to protect all within the 10 square radius of our cities.

   
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Originally posted by Epidemic Epidemic wrote:

I say we stop telling all the newbs to build new towns and move out of the newb circle. Let them figure it out on their own.

The 10 sq. rule needs to stay in place, even expanded on. No way am I going to allow another town within my 10x10.

Go find one of the hundreds of dead games out there that have all the cities built on top of each other. I didn't stay in this game for nearly 3 years just to see it destroyed by a bunch of huggers.

I agree, helping newbs and hugs are destroying the game. LOL
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Originally posted by Pellinell Pellinell wrote:

 
  So while I understand your frustration I don't see why this rule needs to be changed 
  

Where is this rule?
"Um diva.... you are sort of acting like a .... diva...." - PhoenixFire
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I think the main problem is that people see it as a "rule."  To me, it is a guideline or a courtesy.  It is likewise courteous to agree to allow someone to settle closer than 10 squares as long as the settlement is not so close as to interfere with city growth.

For those who say that 10 squares is some sort of reflexive minimum, I simply ask, "Why?"

Other than assertion of dominance or trying to prevent other people from settling in "your" area, why are 10 squares so sacrosanct?

And if the intention is to assert dominance or to "claim" an area ... again, why? What advantage does this provide?

I'd like people to seriously and thoughtfully engage with this question.  I've been playing for Illyriad for close the three years now and have yet to hear any strong argument for exclusive control of an area.  ("We like it that way" is not a well-reasoned argument.)

10 squares is not required for sovereignty claims; a more reasonable guideline for that would be 6 squares, or possibly 7-8.

With regard to mutual defense, exclusivity in an area does not seem to be substantially better than mere dominance.  And attempts at exclusivity or rigid enforcement of an arbitrary "rule" tend to stir up animosity.

Perhaps the developers need not worry so much about creating opportunities for "friction."  It seems to me that the playerbase is quite good at creating arbitrary (and needless) sources of friction all on its own.

I struggle with this question with my alliance mates as well.  When someone sees someone who settles within 10 squares without asking permission, the immediate reaction is that the other person has somehow disrespected or violated the player's space.  Hopefully one's first reaction could be to look at the actual situation and ask "well, does this settlement actually infringe on the potential growth of the other city"? and "is there any other reason the city being there will cause a substantial problem?"  Most of the time the answer to both questions is "no."

As I said, I struggle even with folks in my alliance on this issue.  Yet at the same time I think that if one can set aside issues of ego and power, there is plenty of room for everyone.  And there are plenty of people who will find every opportunity to exercise arbitrary and capricious ego and/or power trips without the rest of us helping them along.
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Pellinell View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Diva Diva wrote:

Originally posted by Pellinell Pellinell wrote:

 
  So while I understand your frustration I don't see why this rule needs to be changed 
  

Where is this rule?

It is a behavioral constraint that the entire community has adopted and followed for a very long time. So an unspoken rule if you like. 

  The point is as I stated above, It is still possible to relocate or settle without violating another's 10 squares. 
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lorre View Drop Down
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Points: 446 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lorre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2014 at 14:35
Originally posted by Pellinell Pellinell wrote:

Originally posted by Diva Diva wrote:

Originally posted by Pellinell Pellinell wrote:

 
  So while I understand your frustration I don't see why this rule needs to be changed 
  

Where is this rule?

It is a behavioral constraint that the entire community has adopted and followed for a very long time. So an unspoken rule if you like. 

  The point is as I stated above, It is still possible to relocate or settle without violating another's 10 squares. 

not the entire community, i always only asked for 5 squares :p
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