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harv2007 
New Poster
Joined: 23 Jan 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 4
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 Topic: short selling in marketplace
Posted: 23 Jan 2012 at 18:03 |
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anyway to set up such a system? would make the marketplace more interesting, for example, when you know the price of bows will fall after the last tournament.
relatedly, any way to see the marketplace level of the player you're trading with? right now if you want a rapid turnaround on your trades, it doesn't help to increase the speed of your own caravans, but depends more on your trading partners....
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Cuddlefuzz
Greenhorn
Joined: 22 Aug 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 47
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Posted: 24 Jan 2012 at 17:57 |
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You can of course do it the "hard way" currently.
- Convince someone to "loan" you a resource, to be returned at a later date.
- Sell at current market prices.
- After market prices have fallen, buy the resource at the lower price.
- Return the resource, pocketing the difference as profit.
It seems a logical option to incorporate this into the game mechanics would be to expand marketplace options, adding time-delayed payment and/or "loans" -- possibly make a "loan" a multi-step transaction that puts up escrowed collateral that is given to the loaner if the loanee does not return the resources in the allotted time.
It would make sense to open the market up to barter agreements at the same time, instead of using gold as the universal currency unit, though this lowers the already low utility value of held gold.
Maybe we'll see something like this in Trade v.2
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Albatross
Postmaster General
Joined: 11 May 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1118
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Posted: 24 Jan 2012 at 18:06 |
Yes, it could be done manually at the moment, by agreement. With the mechanic being 'implemented' manually (as it is), the game is open to (at best) dishonour, and (at worst) bad debt or extortion.
Now, the question to me isn't so much "Do we need it coded?" (with the required consequences for 'breach of contract'), but "Can we educate the people who might want to partake in a contract of this type, and help people protect themselves against consequences?"
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bansisdead
Postmaster
Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 609
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Posted: 24 Jan 2012 at 18:41 |
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What happens when the market collapses? a global financial meltdown,
bankers bailed out, millions lose their jobs, could we see quantative
easing implemented into Illyria. Maybe King Sigurd has ended "the return to boom and bust" so nothing to worry about...
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Cuddlefuzz
Greenhorn
Joined: 22 Aug 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 47
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Posted: 24 Jan 2012 at 22:44 |
 Albatross wrote:
Now, the question to me isn't so much "Do we need it coded?" (with the required consequences for 'breach of contract'), but "Can we educate the people who might want to partake in a contract of this type, and help people protect themselves against consequences?"
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There's no warning when selling 10,000 stone for 1 gold, I don't see why there would be a warning for any other marketplace actions.
Ideally, the game mechanic that makes short selling possible would not specifically be a short selling tool, but some broader expansion of marketplace options. Only those who choose to use them for speculative activity like short selling would be open to the inherent risks.
Anyway, I think we should wait for Trade v.2. Though it would be nice if they considered a marketplace that includes this sort of thing.
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KillerPoodle
Postmaster General
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1853
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Posted: 24 Jan 2012 at 23:21 |
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Short sell hugely on your alt, transfer all cash to your main account, never buy back....
Anyone see the problem with this?
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"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM
"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill
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Aurordan
Postmaster
Player Council - Ambassador
Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 982
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Posted: 25 Jan 2012 at 00:29 |
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Yeah, people abuse this system in real life, were there are actual consequences for other people. I would like for the objective of Illyriad to not be trying to rip off the market as best you can, if that's at all possible.
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harv2007
New Poster
Joined: 23 Jan 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 4
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Posted: 25 Jan 2012 at 01:05 |
Well, i can see an escrow system implemented so that the game server acts as an broker. For example
A. set an amount of gold as an trading funds, instantly transferring that amount to the marketplace, say 20M. B. be allowed to sell some hardcapped percentage of that account in short sales (say 50% or 10M gold worth) of a commodity now (as if loaned to you by the server at avg market price) C. Be required to buy back the commodity within a hardcapped time period (say 5 days) to cover the short, otherwise the server automatically forces you to buy back the commodity at avg. market price D. In the mean time, you will not be allowed to take funds out of your trading account until all your short sales are covered.
In other words, the server would act as an extension of the market with which you conduct transactions. You've already deposited the money into your trading account, so you can't actually breach any contracts. You also have a hard cap on your potential losses, unlike the real world when your losses can be infinite.
It's also a great educational experience. You can still have market bubbles and corrections, but it's all part of the fun and fake money anyway. People can learn about markets without the nasty real world consequences.
Edited by harv2007 - 25 Jan 2012 at 01:38
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Cuddlefuzz
Greenhorn
Joined: 22 Aug 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 47
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Posted: 26 Jan 2012 at 15:29 |
KillerPoodle wrote:
Short sell hugely on your alt, transfer all cash to your main account, never buy back....
Anyone see the problem with this?
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Yes, the problem is alts and not the marketplace, though. As harv detailed and I hinted at earlier, an escrow system should be sufficient.
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