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Faenix 
Forum Warrior
Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 283
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 Topic: re: Code of Conduct & Rules
Posted: 29 Oct 2011 at 19:40 |
My first thought on reading the new code of conduct and rules was that you guys must be joking.
" In order to create a positive and respectful environment for both the Illyriad players and staff, the following are strictly prohibited both in game and on the forums:"
Since this only specifies "in game", do these rules apply to Alliance Chat as well?
Are you trying to say, that we're not allowed to discuss religion or politics in our own private chats? In private IGMs? Or does "in game" really mean in Global Chat? If so, then that should be specified. - discussions and debates of a real world religious or political nature
No discussions of a "political nature" ??? - posting personal information such as address, phone number, real name or other identifying information
You're telling us we're not allowed to tell people our names??? This is the one that makes me think you must be kidding. There's draconian, there's 1984, then there's this .. I'm pretty sure in George Orwell's future you could still tell people your name. - discussion of illegal activities
No discussion of illegal activities? Illegal in what jurisdiction? Since these are the rules of the land, is it illegal to discuss profanity here? Is this post discussing illegal activities, since the purpose is to discuss the activities which have not been deemed legal in Illyriad?
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GM Luna
New Poster
Community Manager
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Location: Illyriad
Status: Offline
Points: 2042
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Posted: 29 Oct 2011 at 20:01 |
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Hi Faenix,
I understand your questions with relation to the new code of conduct and rules.
To answer some specifics:
Alliance chat is not moderated by GMs. The tone set in your alliances and private conversations is up to you. But, this does not mean that if a player finds the content to be threatening or offensive (ie, against the Code of Conduct) that they are powerless to do something about it. The rules exist as a safeguard to players, not a means to control private conversations.
Global Chat however must strictly adhere to the Code of Conduct as it is public.
Discussions and debates about real world politics are not appropriate in public spaces, ie, Global Chat and on the forums. Same goes for sharing personal information of yourself or anyone else.
"Illegal activities" refers to real life law, not forum rules. For example, don't post that you plan to rob a bank.
I hope that helps to clarify. And to be very clear, questions about the rules are welcome (preferably in private to me) but the new Code of Conduct is not up for debate.
-Luna
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GM Luna | Illyriad Community Manager | community@illyriad.co.uk 
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LadyLuvs
Forum Warrior
Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Location: On Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 325
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Posted: 29 Oct 2011 at 20:14 |
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I think the personal information part of the Code is a great asset. I have been a victim of such a thing in the past. Thank you Luna for imposing this. Having a Code of Conduct is only common sense in a game as diverse as this. I am glad there will be a crack down on Trolls and even part time trolls too.
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LadyLuvs
Raven, Murder of Crows Alliance
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Faenix
Forum Warrior
Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 283
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Posted: 29 Oct 2011 at 20:15 |
What I'm trying to clarify, is the Code of Conduct states that this is not allowed in game. It does not have any qualifiers.
Your post says that I can say what I want in private. Thus, I am allowed to break the rules. Unless someone complains about it? So, if my alliance determines that it's okay to have a conversation about politics, that's okay .. As long as nobody complains about it? Since the majority of the players in the game don't partake in chat, how am I even able to clarify if everyone is okay with it?
If my alliance has rules that contradict these global code of conduct, that apply specifically to the private conversations, is that acceptable? As long as the players agree to the alliance specific rules, implicitly, by staying in the alliance? Otherwise, I really can't feel free to set my tone, since there's no way to ensure that all 99 other alliance members are okay with it.
Some of these rules are obviously things that shouldn't be said regardless of the venue, but some of them are very draconian. Not posting personal information is certainly a good recommendation, but how is it that it is against the rules for me to post my name?
On the topic of illegal activities, my point is, illegal in what jurisdiction? This is an international game. In certain countries it is illegal for a woman to go out in public without being covered. Therefore, if I mention that I plan to go out to dinner with my wife, wearing a sleeveless dress. That is illegal in certain parts of the "real world". Or are we talking about illegal in the UK where the game is based? Again, I don't know where in the world all of my game mates are located (in fact, according to the rules, they can't divulge that personal information), so I can't possibly know what may or may not be illegal there.
Other interesting laws, that we need to be careful not to mention going forward. http://whoartnow.hubpages.com/hub/101-Strangest-Laws-From-Around-The-World
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Bartozzi
Greenhorn
Joined: 04 Jul 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 96
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Posted: 29 Oct 2011 at 20:21 |
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Sure, there is the matter of appropriateness. That can be discussed without the stakes being too high.
However, it always seems to me that players overlook the *liability* aspect of these sorts of issue. Anyone can join the forums or GC, and if someone were to get hurt, bullied, stalked, etc., the DEVs could be held accountable for allowing it to happen. And, it doesn't really matter what happens on *other* sites, or forums or chat rooms. The Illy team has always been quite clear they're doing things *their* way. And honestly, that's why a lot of us are here.
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Kilotov of DokGthung
Postmaster
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 723
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Posted: 29 Oct 2011 at 20:22 |
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can i talk about stuff that are legal in my opinion?
like... huuuu... keeping wildlife as house pet or so?
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GM Stormcrow
Moderator Group
GM
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Location: Illyria
Status: Offline
Points: 3820
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Posted: 29 Oct 2011 at 20:23 |
I would also like to make clear that these terms and conditions in the code of conduct are absolutely standard for an MMO game.
If you ever played a game like World of Warcraft or Eve Online, you have already agreed to practically identical terms and conditions (and many more besides).
Of course, if this is the first and only MMO you have ever played then these very standard Terms & Conditions may come as a surprise. If Illyriad is not the first MMO you have ever played, then perhaps you have never read the Terms and Conditions of any of the other ones you have played?
Regarding the definition of "illegal" and "unlawful" in terms of Jurisdiction; the company and servers reside in the United Kingdom and so have to abide by UK and relevant EU laws. However, the definition (as is the same with all other MMOs) is further extensable at the sole discretion of Illyriad Games Limited as to what is and what is not "unlawful".
As Luna rightly says, however, these aren't up for debate. I'm simply drawing your attention that (regardless of whether you think they're draconian or Orwellian) these are entirely standard Terms of Service in the MMO industry.
Regards,
SC
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Rill
Postmaster General
Player Council - Geographer
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6903
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Posted: 29 Oct 2011 at 20:50 |
I'd like to check my understanding of the rules.
1. It is not OK to harass or abuse another player in any venue, including global chat, private chat, alliance chat, in-game mail, player profiles in-game or on the forum, forum posts or forum mail.
2. It is similarly not OK to advocate, conspire to commit or commit illegal activities in any of those venues.
3. It is permissible to exchange contact information such as e-mail or Facebook information in any venue EXCEPT global chat and forum posts. It is similarly permissible to discuss real-world politics and any topics other than those that are abusive or illegal in venues other than global chat and forum posts.
If my understanding of these rules is correct, I don't see where there is a problem.
I know we're not supposed to discuss the code of conduct, but I will observe that trolling is often in the eye of the beholder, and any attempt to regulate trolling in any but the most light-handed manner may serve to stifle discourse and result in perceptions of favoritism (even if those perceptions are inaccurate).
The community actually does a reasonably good job at managing its own trolls, and I personally hope that moderators show a great deal of restraint in locking threads, deleting threads, etc. -- including the ones I don't like or consider trollish. We are for the most part adults, and treating us like children is just going to make us more likely to act like children. This is not intended as a criticism of anyone, just an observation that I hope will be considered.
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Faenix
Forum Warrior
Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 283
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Posted: 29 Oct 2011 at 20:55 |
 If my understanding of these rules is correct, I don't see where there is a problem. |
If that's the rules, then I don't see where there's a problem either, except that's not what the rules say.
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gangas
Greenhorn
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Location: Arran
Status: Offline
Points: 41
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Posted: 29 Oct 2011 at 21:04 |
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rill good post i agree
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re: Code of Conduct & Rules