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StJude
Postmaster
Joined: 12 Jun 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 568
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Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 00:35 |
lorre wrote:
i can help you with that last one jude want me to go find some? |
Yes Sir, I genuinely would, I may have missed them in the nuclear explosion of posts.
You would be better off sending them to me in a Private Message right now though....or not. Up to you.
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lorre
Forum Warrior
Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Location: Groot Kortrijk
Status: Offline
Points: 446
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Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 00:32 |
StJude wrote:
Lashka wrote:
Jude,
Frankly the fact that someone trots out Martin Niemoller to insinuate that anyone who does not rush to VALAR's defense is a Nazi or somehow complicit is offensive, out of line, and yes over the top - |
You are missing the point. That was clearly not the intent, but you are welcome to continue believing it.
Lashka wrote:
To in ANY way equate a GAME with genocide is offensive. To somehow cast those fighting on one side or the other in the same pantheon of the people who actually sacrificed to try to stop many types of genocide over the past century is offensive, both to their memory and what they accomplished. |
Again, no one said they are. You are getting wrapped up in this pretty emotionally. Regardless, I will bite. When the same dude posts Bon Jovi lyrics in one part of a thread and then Niemoller in another, I am not gonna take that dude seriously and start flinging mud about how this guy is a degenerate. I urge you to step back a bit and take stock.
Lashka wrote:
If the community can't check its vitriol this much, then that's just depressing, and its going to really make me question whether I, as a new player, really want to be part of this community.
I hope I'm wrong. |
No offense here, but no one is making you stay, what reason would you have in voicing that?
Again, when things go x-Box live in Illyriad, then is the time to check out another game. If it is bothering you this much, I honestly can't understand why you are here reading this tripe then. I honestly don't that. There is a reason you don't see me over on the Hello Kitty forums saying "Hey, this game is lame and so are you forums, until this changes, I am not even sure I can play here"
Lashka wrote:
And if there are people who can't deal with their frustration and anger about a perceived injustice or a loss of status IN A GAME without trying to debase and hurt another person, if a person gets enjoyment from inflicting emotional distress on other people, well then I recommend they take a good, hard look at their life and their personal happiness.
Sorry, but its true. People want to rail against the mismatch, fine. People want to argue in favor of the Six Armies, fine. |
I agree with this....yeah, I know, don't fall out of your chair. At the same time, don't confuse passionate feelings for ideas with sociopathic tendencies.
I was just told by Amroth that it would be a good thing if I committed assisted suicide. Not the end of the world. I won't judge that dude's entire genetic makeup and moral baseline on a moment of frustration. I will however look on him poorly for taking this long to apologise.
Lashka wrote:
People can do so without resorting to calling people Nazis, fascists, questioning their sexual identity, their mental health status or any other aspect of their personhood (by the way, all of the above have happened in the past week, by people on both sides) |
In competition, there will be what the Yanks call "Smack talk". What I will be REALLY interested in, and what will really show peoples "character" is how they respond AFTER their emotions have settled.
Also, I have yet to see someone CALL someone a Nazi or fascist. Have parallells been drawn? Sure. But I don't think ANYONE who has hinted at it really believes it.....well....yet anyway. |
i can help you with that last one jude want me to go find some?
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The battlefield is a scene of constant chaos. The winner will be the one who controls that chaos, both his own and the enemies.
Napoleon Bonaparte
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Dakota Strider
Greenhorn
Joined: 03 May 2011
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 62
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Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 00:31 |
StJude wrote:
scottfitz wrote:
If Valar had any interest in a diplomatic resolution, this conflict would have never happened |
Mr SF, Rill and whoever else voted yes to this:
Here is what all this sounds like to me. If you will, let me tell you a wee little story that I think sums up my feelings so far
Your typical Homeowners Association: "Yay! We love everybody! Welcome to our neighborhood! Everyone is welcome! We embrace diversity here! Here's a welcome package, come by the local GC Clubhouse and say hi to everyone!
Weirdo Family Mr and Mrs Valaar: "Um, no thanks, we don't really like the GC clubhouse, we enjoy a bit of the old Neighbor vs Neighbor routine. That's cool right? You said everyone is welcome here in subdivision (estate if you are from the isles) Sandy Box Springs.
Your typical Homeowners Association: "Sure they are! We embrace diversity, remember?"
Weirdo Family Mr and Mrs Valaar: "Cool, we should fit right in here. You will probably see our pets taking dumps in peoples lawns, but other than that, we generally keep to ourselves"
Your typical Homeowners Association: "Sure! No problem! We like people doing their own thing here in Sandy Box Springs, we embrace diversity! Everyone is welcome!"
1 year later......
Your typical Homeowners Association Person A: "Those Valaars sure do keep to themselves other than a few of their kids and pets taking dumps on peoples lawns"
Your typical Homeowners Association Persons B, C, D, E and F: "Yeah, they make no effort to reach out to their neighbors!!!"
Your typical Homeowners Association Person A: "Yeah! That's right! Those arrogant douchebags!"
Your typical Homeowners Association Persons B, C, D, E and F: "You know WHAT? We should go kick their asses until they come and say "Hi" to us!"
All of the typical Homeowners Association: "WHARGARRBBLE, KILL THEM WITH SPIKEY THINGS AND SHOVE FIRE UP THEIR BUMS!!! THAT WILL TEACH THEM TO EMBRACE DIVERSITY LIKE WE DO!!!!"
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+ Infinity
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StJude
Postmaster
Joined: 12 Jun 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 568
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Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 00:27 |
Rill wrote:
It simply took that long for us to come to a decision. There were lots of voices to be heard. We didn't rush into it. |
So, mCrows had to decide if what VALAR was actually doing was wrong? Implying that.....they may not be the scumbags everyone says they are?
Because the OP sure didn't communicate that.
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StJude
Postmaster
Joined: 12 Jun 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 568
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Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 00:25 |
Lashka wrote:
Jude,
Frankly the fact that someone trots out Martin Niemoller to insinuate that anyone who does not rush to VALAR's defense is a Nazi or somehow complicit is offensive, out of line, and yes over the top - |
You are missing the point. That was clearly not the intent, but you are welcome to continue believing it.
Lashka wrote:
To in ANY way equate a GAME with genocide is offensive. To somehow cast those fighting on one side or the other in the same pantheon of the people who actually sacrificed to try to stop many types of genocide over the past century is offensive, both to their memory and what they accomplished. |
Again, no one said they are. You are getting wrapped up in this pretty emotionally. Regardless, I will bite. When the same dude posts Bon Jovi lyrics in one part of a thread and then Niemoller in another, I am not gonna take that dude seriously and start flinging mud about how this guy is a degenerate. I urge you to step back a bit and take stock.
Lashka wrote:
If the community can't check its vitriol this much, then that's just depressing, and its going to really make me question whether I, as a new player, really want to be part of this community.
I hope I'm wrong. |
No offense here, but no one is making you stay, what reason would you have in voicing that?
Again, when things go x-Box live in Illyriad, then is the time to check out another game. If it is bothering you this much, I honestly can't understand why you are here reading this tripe then. I honestly don't that. There is a reason you don't see me over on the Hello Kitty forums saying "Hey, this game is lame and so are you forums, until this changes, I am not even sure I can play here"
Lashka wrote:
And if there are people who can't deal with their frustration and anger about a perceived injustice or a loss of status IN A GAME without trying to debase and hurt another person, if a person gets enjoyment from inflicting emotional distress on other people, well then I recommend they take a good, hard look at their life and their personal happiness.
Sorry, but its true. People want to rail against the mismatch, fine. People want to argue in favor of the Six Armies, fine. |
I agree with this....yeah, I know, don't fall out of your chair. At the same time, don't confuse passionate feelings for ideas with sociopathic tendencies.
I was just told by Amroth that it would be a good thing if I committed assisted suicide. Not the end of the world. I won't judge that dude's entire genetic makeup and moral baseline on a moment of frustration. I will however look on him poorly for taking this long to apologise.
Lashka wrote:
People can do so without resorting to calling people Nazis, fascists, questioning their sexual identity, their mental health status or any other aspect of their personhood (by the way, all of the above have happened in the past week, by people on both sides) |
In competition, there will be what the Yanks call "Smack talk". What I will be REALLY interested in, and what will really show peoples "character" is how they respond AFTER their emotions have settled.
Also, I have yet to see someone CALL someone a Nazi or fascist. Have parallells been drawn? Sure. But I don't think ANYONE who has hinted at it really believes it.....well....yet anyway.
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Rill
Postmaster General
Player Council - Geographer
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6903
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Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 00:16 |
StJude wrote:
Rill wrote:
We don't act out of any fear. Fear is a poor reason in general to go to war.
We make a stand for the same things I've been saying since before the war started. Live and let live. And yes, when one values something, sometimes passive resistance isn't enough. Sometimes one must stand up and be counted.
This is me. I am saying live and let live. Even though I don't like war, I'm willing to fight so that others can live in peace.
Count me. |
You are either not reading what I am saying, or i am communicating for crap.
Let me try and rephrase in case it is the latter.
Why did mCrows not act sooner if they believed VALAR was wrong? The fear I am referring to is, the fear in DECLARING the war sooner. If it was wrong today, it was wrong three weeks ago. Why the delay in saying "It is Wrong! Consequences be damned, we are gonna stand up for the little guy!" |
It simply took that long for us to come to a decision. There were lots of voices to be heard. We didn't rush into it.
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StJude
Postmaster
Joined: 12 Jun 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 568
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Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 00:12 |
Rill wrote:
We don't act out of any fear. Fear is a poor reason in general to go to war.
We make a stand for the same things I've been saying since before the war started. Live and let live. And yes, when one values something, sometimes passive resistance isn't enough. Sometimes one must stand up and be counted.
This is me. I am saying live and let live. Even though I don't like war, I'm willing to fight so that others can live in peace.
Count me. |
You are either not reading what I am saying, or i am communicating for crap.
Let me try and rephrase in case it is the latter.
Why did mCrows not act sooner if they believed VALAR was wrong? The fear I am referring to is, the fear in DECLARING the war sooner. If it was wrong today, it was wrong three weeks ago. Why the delay in saying "It is Wrong! Consequences be damned, we are gonna stand up for the little guy!"
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Lashka
Greenhorn
Joined: 29 Sep 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 89
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Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 00:10 |
Jude,
Frankly the fact that someone trots out Martin Niemoller to insinuate that anyone who does not rush to VALAR's defense is a Nazi or somehow complicit is offensive, out of line, and yes over the top -
To in ANY way equate a GAME with genocide is offensive. To somehow cast those fighting on one side or the other in the same pantheon of the people who actually sacrificed to try to stop many types of genocide over the past century is offensive, both to their memory and what they accomplished.
If the community can't check its vitriol this much, then that's just depressing, and its going to really make me question whether I, as a new player, really want to be part of this community.
I hope I'm wrong.
And if there are people who can't deal with their frustration and anger about a perceived injustice or a loss of status IN A GAME without trying to debase and hurt another person, if a person gets enjoyment from inflicting emotional distress on other people, well then I recommend they take a good, hard look at their life and their personal happiness.
Sorry, but its true. People want to rail against the mismatch, fine. People want to argue in favor of the Six Armies, fine.
People can do so without resorting to calling people Nazis, fascists, questioning their sexual identity, their mental health status or any other aspect of their personhood (by the way, all of the above have happened in the past week, by people on both sides)
Everyone is free to debate the issue, not the person, without resorting to ad hominem attacks and tired memes.
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Rill
Postmaster General
Player Council - Geographer
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6903
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Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 00:09 |
StJude wrote:
Rill wrote:
It is better to me to act honorably and be perceived as dishonorable than to fail to act for fear of staining one's reputation. |
I would believe that, if hadn't taken so long to act, if it was wrong then as it is now, why so long to deliberate? Sorry, not buying it.
Right now, your actions have spoken louder than any words you could type on these forums.
In other words, what LEGITIMATE fear did mCrows have in declaring war out of the starting gate? |
We don't act out of any fear. Fear is a poor reason in general to go to war.
There were voices in mCrow that were against the war. It was not a decision we made lightly. I myself have very mixed feelings about it. I agree with so many that force should be the last option.
However, after much debate, we decided to make a stand for the same things I've been saying since before the war started. Live and let live. And yes, when one values something, sometimes passive resistance isn't enough. Sometimes one must stand up and be counted.
This is me. I am saying live and let live. Even though I don't like war, I'm willing to fight so that others can live in peace.
Count me.
Edited by Rill - 30 Sep 2011 at 00:13
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Brids17
Postmaster General
Joined: 30 Jul 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1483
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Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 00:01 |
Rill wrote:
However, we believe this is a matter of honor and of standing for principle. |
I thought it was just a chance for me to attack a player I didn't like...but sure, honor and such!
StJude wrote:
In other words, what LEGITIMATE fear did mCrows have in declaring war out of the starting gate? |
Not all of out members were sure about the war. We wanted to make sure most people were ok with it before heading into war (something I think some alliances don't bother doing).
Edited by Brids17 - 30 Sep 2011 at 00:03
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