Reading through this, I think that some of the logic used in y'alls arguments is flawed.
Really, you have 2 separate topics going on. One of the topics has to do with the lack of spaces left on the map that are good for new players to build on. The second topic has to do with encouraging PvP by limiting space on the map.
A lot of the posts in this discussion make the argument that limiting the map will encourage people to PvP over good spaces, but the original post had to do with letting noobs start building to begin with.
If there are no good spots on the map left for new players to build on, then this implies that that is because all the good spots are already taken by older players. Older players are going to already to have an advantage over noobs in that they have already built up their cities to a level that makes them able to produce troops in order to fight other players.
If your argument against expanding the map is that you want people to have to fight over the good spaces, you seem to be ignoring the fact that the people who would be having to fight to get one of those good spaces are going to be people who can't fight yet. You want the noobs attacking the vets in order to get the good spaces on the map?
I don't think that that is going to work out so well.
The people who want to encourage PvP are the people who are ready to PvP. But those players ALREADY have good spots on the map, so it isn't them who would be bearing the brunt of this encouragement.
A lot of the people shooting down the idea of a new server are doing so on the grounds that making a new server would cause the game to be like most other mmorts games, and turn the game into a noob ganking free for all like many others are.
On the one hand, I agree that just adding a new server is probably not the best solution to the problem. As many other players have pointed out, splitting up the playerbase just ends up causing a different set of problems than an overcrowded server does. On the other hand, I have to say that forcing newer players to fight bigger players for good spots on the map is just as likely to create a noob ganking free for all as adding a new server would.
I happen to be one of those noobs who is trying to find a spot on the map to start building up in, and I have to tell you that if I were going to have to pick a fight with someone who has been playing for 6+ months in order to get a space to build, I wouldn't even bother trying. A noob can't build or support an army big enough to even put a mosquito bite on a veteran player, much less steal a spot on the map from one.
I am to new to judge whether or not what all the older players say is a good spot really is a good spot or not. But I am going to assume that people who have been playing for a year or two, probably have a fairly decent idea of how to play the game, and probably also know in general what is important in city location selection. Even if they are all wrong, the game is far to complex for someone like me, who has been playing about a month, to figure out a better strategy than the people who have been playing for a couple of years. Yes, there might be some room in the game for people to diversify their strategies, but the new players are not going to be the ones coming up with those strategies. We have to learn the basics of how the combat system works in the first place, before we can invent ways of switching the tactics up.
Several people have also pointed out that there are "plenty of 7 food spots left up in the wastes."
MMMMMM.......yes......I see that there are......but I have to wonder if there might not be a reason for that. If the entire rest of the map is packed, and the name of the area is called "wastes," I am thinking that that area probably has some kind of a disadvantage that would not make it a good area for new players to want to start out in. But I am new, and barely understand what makes a good spot a good spot, so maybe I am wrong.
But that is rather my point. Noobs are not the people who you want to aim a requirement to fight at. We don't know how, and couldn't compete even if we did know how.
A lot of people keep saying that there is a population cap, so noobs can catch up, yada yada. But if there are no places for us to make cities that will have comparable benefits to the spots that the long term players have, then that is obviously not true. Even after we have played for the 6 months it takes to get to vet status, if we couldn't get the spots you need to make cities and armies the size of the ones longer term players have, then we will not have cities of comparable size since the spots we ARE able to get are not capable of supporting cities of comparable sizes and army populations. The population caps of the newer players will be capped at smaller levels than the levels of the people who got here first.
My ubernoobness hinders me in making a solid evaluation of the problem being discussed, because I do not yet understand all the statistics in the game. But I don't have to know exactly how everything works to understand what the underlying root of people's complaints are.
1. The map is too crowded and there isn't any good areas for new players to start out in.
2. The game does not have enough PvP.
Both of these complaints seem like real problems to me. This is not the first thread I have read where these two particular complaints were mentioned.
I KNOW map overcrowding is a problem, because I already have run into problems finding a spot to build in. I moved my city to a spot where a veteran player in the training alliance I was in told me to, and got chastised approximately 3 hours later by a different veteran player for putting my city to close to his. So I researched all the information about how to pick spots and went looking for a new area to colonize. After scrolling the map for two hours tonight, I still haven't found a single spot that would fit the criteria of: 1. having 7 food 2. have nearby adjacent high food 3. isn't within a 10 sector radius of another city. I can't really even find a spot that simply doesn't have a city within a 10 sector radius of it. Well...I found a place in the middle of a desert and a place in the middle of an ice field that didn't have any cities. But since they also didn't have any sectors that were actually settleable, they really don't count. I cant put a city on a 0 resource sector even if I wanted to. I am sure there ARE some spots somewhere, but 2 hours of searching wasn't enough for me to find one. And I wasn't being picky, either. My only criteria were that it be capable of supporting a competitive size army and not be so close to anyone that it made them mad. There are actually a bunch of other important criteria in location selection, such as terrain, region, and nearby sovereignty bonuses, but I gave up worrying about those about 10 minutes after I started looking.
Making it this difficult for new players will drive them away from the game. Personally, having played a ton of other mmorts games, I know that to become good at a game you have to be willing to spend a lot of time analyzing stats, and figuring stuff out, and am fully prepared to do so. I'll go back to searching the map tomorrow when I get off work.
But a new player who hasn't played a ton of mmorts games before probably will just decide the game is to tedious and go looking for something that is easier to get started in. Most players have to get hooked on a game the first couple of days they play it, or they quit and never return.
Does this mean that they should make a new Illyriad server? Probably not. But it is an issue that needs to be addressed somehow.
The lack of PvP is another serious issue. The game requires a deep time investment to build in, and if there is no longterm goal of fighting other players, then the game isn't really an mmorts. It is city building game with peripheral strategy aspects. That doesn't make it bad. From the many loyal players the game has, it is obvious that the current format appeals to a good number of people. But it also is going to drive away a lot of people.
In my opinion, wanting to have meaningful PvP doesn't mean that people just want to act like the people who play other mmorts games act. If people liked how those games worked, they would be playing those games. People come to this game because they are looking for something different, and Illyriad promotes itself as being different. Wanting something different does not mean, however, that players want EVERYTHING about other mmorts games kept out of the game they are looking for. It isn't generally the fact that there is PvP in other mmorts games that makes them have mean, nasty, bullies for players. It is the way that the game mechanics of PvP are set up in those games that causes that environment. To come up with a solution for this problem, you have to look at what people like about PvP in other mmorts games, what they don't like about it, what they like about the current way Illyriad is set up, and what people don't like about it. Then come up with an idea that incorporates the stuff that people DO like, but that does not include the factors that people do NOT like.
People play games for fun. Not to have to do stuff they don't like. Not to do the things that other people like, just to make them happy. The developers have to balance out everyone's wants and dislikes, and come up with a game design that includes as many of the things that people like as possible without including all the stuff they don't like. Games are businesses. Developers can't just do things to make any one group of people happy. Their goal is to make a game that is attractive to as wide a variety of people as possible.
In this thread I have gathered that most people do not like the overcrowded state of the map, and a large number of people do not like the lack of PvP.
Helpful suggestions would solve the problem of map overcrowding, but allow for the people who want to PvP to be able to find someone to compete with, while preserving the friendly atmosphere of the playerbase, and allowing the non-PvP oriented players to continue with their current playing styles.
None of what I have read so far meets that criteria. I do not think opening a new server is the answer. It might temporarily solve the problems, but eventually you will just end up with the exact same problems on two different servers, and will have split your player base up to top it off. I do believe that there are probably ways to accomplish all of these goals, it just requires some creative problem solving.
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Hbz77 wrote:
