Play Now Login Create Account
illyriad
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - This is where I stand (H/C war)
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedThis is where I stand (H/C war)

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 7>
Author
 Rating: Topic Rating: 2 Votes, Average 2.50  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
The_Dude View Drop Down
Postmaster General
Postmaster General


Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 2396
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2012 at 23:02
Well, I was using myself as the standard of ego, so it is pretty easy to see you as humble.
Back to Top
HonoredMule View Drop Down
Postmaster General
Postmaster General
Avatar

Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1650
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2012 at 23:00
Libel I say!
"Apparently, quoting me is a 'thing' now."
- HonoredMule
Back to Top
The_Dude View Drop Down
Postmaster General
Postmaster General


Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 2396
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2012 at 22:59
Originally posted by HonoredMule HonoredMule wrote:

I've never once been accused of humility. Ermm

I think HM is the most humble soul to walk the land of Illy.  Clap
Back to Top
HonoredMule View Drop Down
Postmaster General
Postmaster General
Avatar

Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1650
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2012 at 22:44
Also, while skimming over the thread I did see someone ask if they could quote something I said.  I prefer not to be quoted out of context, but it's not like anyone can control how their words are used once published.  At any rate, go right ahead.  I think the quote in question is one of my more apt statements anyway, and I've never once been accused of humility. Ermm
"Apparently, quoting me is a 'thing' now."
- HonoredMule
Back to Top
HonoredMule View Drop Down
Postmaster General
Postmaster General
Avatar

Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1650
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2012 at 22:39
Originally posted by BlindScribe BlindScribe wrote:

Much appreciate the reply, HM...thank you.

Out of curiosity, how do you wish he would have handled it?  - He found out that the alliance wasn't what he thought it was, he voiced his dissent, and now, is leaving.

What would you have had him do in place of those things?  (Edit:  Bearing in mind that we've already established that this isn't "just a game" and that this issue, taking place in full public view, was obviously something very important to him, and therefore, also likely to unfold in full view of the public--this isn't something that was ever going to go away in a series of quiet, backroom conversations, I don't think...not based on how much is already in the public eye)

~Scribe


The details you enumerate there are all ok.  The problem arises mostly from other inappropriate and/or out-of-order steps not mentioned.  There are a number of things we'd expect from someone who stands as one of us and thus claims a position of loyalty:
  • First and very foremost, stay abreast of events and the information that is made available.  It's hard to be a functioning member of the alliance if you don't know what's going on in it.  Or if you're going to be completely oblivious, maybe don't demonstrate this in public so it looks like your alliance doesn't tell you anything.
  • Second, give higher allegiance to one's current alliance and teammates than past acquaintances.  Where loyalties still conflict, disclose such to your alliance and hold a neutral position.
  • Respect the appointment of authority (which simply means do not attempt to perform a leadership role to which you've not been appointed either by selection or election, such as diplomat).
  • When presented with something unknown, get the facts before passing judgment.  That of course can apply anywhere, but when the case is being made against your own alliance, surely you'd ask for your own alliance's version of the story before presuming guilt.
  • When in disagreement with your alliance, speak up to your alliance.  All of it.  Keeping "subversive" viewpoints buried may be what other alliances want, but Harmless members know we don't go for that spiderweb of 1-on-1 dealings nonsense, nor for covering up disagreements.  That kind of hidden baggage weighs an alliance down and fragments it into pockets of divided loyalties, which heralds back to the issue with loyalties outside the alliance.  There's supposed to be unity and solidarity.
  • When in disagreement with your alliance and while still a representing member of that alliance, do not take up a role as secret advocate for the enemy.  A public stand of neutrality/conscientious abstention is somewhat disloyal to your alliance too, but depending on how it's performed could fly somewhere in the vicinity of acceptable behavior for a current member.  While a public statement did prompt the counter-statement to be made public as well, this is the least of the issues.
If there is a difference between member and alliance which cannot be resolved, it is appropriate to part, after which the only remaining expectation is that the ex-member not share intel or otherwise abuse privileges tied to the prior membership.

But while you are a member of an alliance, that alliance as a whole deserves your first consideration in all matters.  Imagine if some key members told Harmless representatives they thought Harmless was in the right and all of Consone were 100% wrong--that they would try on Harmless' behalf to convince Consone to surrender--and then contacted Consone leadership and said "hey, I have no idea what's going on, so what's up with this?"

One last point.  I can see how Harmless can be accused of failing to control the message diplomatically speaking, but you should understand that we've not really tried to do so.  Honestly I'm surprised to see that there are even people left like yourself who bear a shred of objectivity and/or have intelligent questions or discussion.  I normally wouldn't be bothering to carry any post-statement discourse at all.  The last time I was here, the forum's atmosphere had devolved into utter despotism and inane punditry.  I left because there was simply nothing worth being here for.

Yet even if that has changed, the fact remains that nothing is decided or controlled here--not even public opinion.  Word-of-mouth and alliance-to-alliance dealings still carry the greatest weight and volume of information among the older alliances at least.  Heck, before war broke out there was more activity and participation in Harmless's Embassy alone than the whole of these forums.  Anything that takes place here and now is just a puppet show and parade for the new faces.  And as much of a chaotic flurry as this seems, it also is just the same old song and dance from so many times before, and it's participants all comfortable in their familiar and well-practiced roles.  Who in their right mind would lose sleep trying to control a propaganda war when there's no prize for winning?  All those kind of prizes were handed out over the previous 3 months to 2 years (depending on how big a picture you're viewing).
"Apparently, quoting me is a 'thing' now."
- HonoredMule
Back to Top
BlindScribe View Drop Down
Wordsmith
Wordsmith


Joined: 12 Sep 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 168
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2012 at 22:26
That could well be...there have been so many!  Which rather proves the point, I think.  The messaging war was lost almost before this thing began...that we can no longer keep track of who said what, and when puts the exclamation point at the end of the sentence.

Regardless, I don't think anybody who comes here would argue that H? has, in any way "won" the messaging war, which also proves the point decisively.

I'm not sure they could have, based on what we now know, but there were specific strategies that could have been employed to at least give a fighting chance.

Control of the message does not happen by accident.


Edited by BlindScribe - 16 Oct 2012 at 22:27
Back to Top
Darmon View Drop Down
Forum Warrior
Forum Warrior


Joined: 15 Aug 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 315
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2012 at 21:33
Originally posted by BlindScribe BlindScribe wrote:

Right here in this thread...I forget who, but it surely seems a valid point, based on how the message got away from H? so quickly in this latest incident.  Bottom line...where diplo is concerned, you either control the message, or it controls you (that's another kind of power)...H? has failed to control the message.

You can point to any number of reasons why this is so, but often, the simplest explanations are correct.  H? is an alliance of warriors.  Diplo is...meh.

I vaguely recall someone giving that impression as well, but on combing through this thread (albeit very hastily) I couldn't seem to locate the exact quote.  Are you sure it wasn't in another thread?  Personally, all these threads are starting to blur together in my mind...
Back to Top
BlindScribe View Drop Down
Wordsmith
Wordsmith


Joined: 12 Sep 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 168
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2012 at 20:36
Right here in this thread...I forget who, but it surely seems a valid point, based on how the message got away from H? so quickly in this latest incident.  Bottom line...where diplo is concerned, you either control the message, or it controls you (that's another kind of power)...H? has failed to control the message.

You can point to any number of reasons why this is so, but often, the simplest explanations are correct.  H? is an alliance of warriors.  Diplo is...meh.


Edited by BlindScribe - 16 Oct 2012 at 20:38
Back to Top
SunStorm View Drop Down
Postmaster
Postmaster
Avatar

Joined: 01 Apr 2011
Location: "Look Up"
Status: Offline
Points: 979
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2012 at 20:32
Originally posted by BlindScribe BlindScribe wrote:

as your own folks have said...this isn't really your strong suit.
Who was saying this?

"Side? I am on nobody's side because nobody is on my side" ~LoTR

Back to Top
BlindScribe View Drop Down
Wordsmith
Wordsmith


Joined: 12 Sep 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 168
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2012 at 20:15
KP, I would not have expected otherwise.  :)  And you are certainly free to do so.  You are focusing on one or two trees, and utterly missing the presence of the forest, but...as your own folks have said...this isn't really your strong suit.  No shame in that...you've always played to your strengths and done it very well.  It just happens that this isn't one of them.

Edited by BlindScribe - 16 Oct 2012 at 20:20
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 7>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.