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Topic Closedthe nature of the crows

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Anjire View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2013 at 20:56
Originally posted by ES2 ES2 wrote:

Originally posted by KillerPoodle KillerPoodle wrote:

Are you Miley Cyrus in real life?

When Miley Cyrus is naked and licks a hammer, it is "art" and "music". when I do it, I am "drunk" and have to "leave Home Depot".



At least credit Reddit for that Wink

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ES2 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2013 at 20:37
Originally posted by KillerPoodle KillerPoodle wrote:

Are you Miley Cyrus in real life?

When Miley Cyrus is naked and licks a hammer, it is "art" and "music". when I do it, I am "drunk" and have to "leave Home Depot".


Eternal Fire
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KillerPoodle View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2013 at 19:28
Are you Miley Cyrus in real life?
"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM

"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill
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twilights View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2013 at 18:29
if the crowfed goes to war the the harm group i will help them out...take that as u want but we really need some major action in this game and we have to quit waiting and depending on the devs for playing interest....pvp should give the most fun and biggest challege.....shakes her behind at harm and ncLOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2013 at 14:45
On confederations in general and with no concern or relevance to Crows.
I do believe confederation is a political power bloc tool. I agree with the above notions that the offset effects of power blocs is only at the discretion of those few in high influence over such a power bloc. But as we have seen in RL coalition and power bloc building it does arise i.e personality cults where feedback to powerful elite influencors deminish over time in fear of the cost from fallout with these/ this person(s). This one of the most serious negative developments a confederation can have. Stalin is one example and his cult turned so acidy for feedback that there is a Hotel in Moscow built in two architectural styles because Stalin approved plans containing two seperate ideas without reading them...nobody deared to tell him of his mistake (Please do check this story and come back to me with confirmation or falsification. It is still a good story that I have heard and I find it worth sharing until I know better).

Clearly, Illyriad is not yet so acid in terms of influencive players and feedback/ social dynamics between layers of players throughout hierarchies. But this is no guarantee this same political dynamics can occur. There is a romour that a political scientist is writing an article about Illyriad politics, so attention may be given to this and other effects.

Both informal and formal confederations share the same dynamics. So I cannot in this strict theoretical framework see any difference between Illyriad domination by informal confederational structures or the declared formal ones. They are potentially equally dangerous, but it is also naive to think they should not arise at all. However, the mere fact they exist (informal or formal) is not a cause in itself to go to war or hostile actions against it.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2013 at 04:38
Just to further highlight Angrim's point about the lack of rigid structure or monolithic unity within the Crowfed, at the time Harry declared the "Ursor Directive" , I was a rook of both Crow and nCrow, I was totally unaware Harry was going to post what he did, and despite the fact I believe he did so in order to support a very minor tussle I was involved in, neither I nor Rill, or Cookieman ever discussed it beforehand.  It was a very organic (and intended to be benevolent, even if its message was likely, and understandably misunderstood) spur of the moment act by the master rook of nCrow, there was certainly no input from other wings...  there wasn't even any from within nCrow ...  but it goes to highlight that what perceptions there may be on the outside, sometimes the reality is quite different ...   and very much less evil or maniacal ....

.. in the end,  there was no horrific oppression of the masses, no stiffling of the expansion of other alliances within Ursor or elsewhere...  and even those who railed against the original post , have to look back at it now and realize it was part of no master grand evil plan to either ruin Illy or rule the world ...

.. just the 2 cents of wisdom from someone who really is very much trying to be a disinterested 3rd party ...  if only Ditto would stop dragging me back in....  (reminds me of a scene from Godfather...)...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2013 at 19:44
Torden, you seem to have missed Angrim's original point. The Crow family is a true confederation. It is not a hierarchy. There are not any "federal policies" to administer to the whole, beyond some broadly shared guiding principles.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2013 at 19:43
Originally posted by Redfist Redfist wrote:


He needs to brush up on his propaganda theoreticals though. This one is a bit second rate. I am even tempted to say that Deranzin could do better and that is no yardstick to be measured by - believe you me. Wink

I find people that feel the need to project their own pettiness to others, very funny ... Big smile ... especially when they use fake accounts to hide their accusations.

To the point now, I have no idea what happened in Oct 06, but I find Angrim's post very eloquent and very interesting too. Imho it states more or less the unconscious idea that most people have about Crows and that is quite nice.

Thank being said, indeed I will agree with people that claim that Crows and Consone are totally different in many aspects. Besides, in the Consone war I actually used the CrowFed as a positive example of how such things should have been done. Wink

The way I see it, every large or small collection of people have their occasional "bad fruits" and all these years the Crows have proven that they have good enough caretakers and leaders to locate and eventually either straighten or weed out the people that did not fit to their ideals and the way the CrowFed thinks and works, as Angrim explained.

So, if something is wrong or something is out of the ordinary I expect it to be reported to the CrowFed leaders and eventually worked out calmly and fairly. Just like every other time (or at least that is my impression of their efficiency on such matters :)  ).

Originally posted by Brandmeister Brandmeister wrote:

That's a valuable asset to oppose the potential tsunami of snuggling.

[...]

Illyriad is a sandbox game. Benevolent smothering is one of the many possible outcomes.


Well, I am fine with "Benevolent smothering", but no hugs for me please Tongue
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2013 at 18:29
Seems to me that the Crows(of any feather) want their old role back as the in-between guys while others went gungho on eachother. They have so far done good job steering clear of the worst of the trouble. They would be able to continue doing so indefinitely if not for that single little difference that now they are in some aspects of the Illyriad world "the man".
If not by vitue of military strength then by any other measure of magnitude and influence as the CrowFed has grown quite comprehensive with more social interaction and conflicts to follow.
 
Whichever frustration, injustice or the like, directed at a crowfed alliance will cast the same reflection on the Crowfed Entity as a whole. Grievances are unavoidable on this scale.

Bottom line I think, the Crows should find a better way of administering their federal policies so that they avoid entangling themselves in trivial conflicts, or/and simply be more restrictive about the Crow Federation - i.e. reduce the maximum number of alliances within. This would facilitate communication with other alliances.

Id like to hear from ScottFitz on the matter.
"FYI - if you had any balls you'd be posting under your in-game name." - KP
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2013 at 18:00
Originally posted by BellusRex BellusRex wrote:

Personally, I find the various Crow alliances to be no more threatening, indeed far less, than those alliances with "hidden confederations"

I also find it a bit hard to accept the statements of those players who argue this is stifling or a threat to the game. Especially when you consider the source of those very same statements appear with their concerns any time they perceive their own power and game control to possibly be threatened.

If so many members of our game community felt threatened by Crows or their structure, then I wonder what it means that they all voted with their feet and joined that structure. If so many players feel the need to join Crows, I wonder what the threat is in the game that draws them to the Crow aegis?

I think this question is fair and not answered now.


Edited by Janosch - 08 Oct 2013 at 18:02
You like Democracy? Join the Old Republic!
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