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The Iron/RE vs SMA war
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Thirion View Drop Down
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Points: 680 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thirion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2024 at 20:24
Originally posted by Dogstar Dogstar wrote:

Actually, you are the one that seems to be stuck in gear.

"In a fair and acceptable deal/compromise both sides get something they want." - this is your mantra and you are sticking to it? OK then.



Sorry - but you still seem to not get it. That is why i am repeating it.

Originally posted by Dogstar Dogstar wrote:

What possibly could SMA want?


I wrote some ideas that might work. You are welcome to answer to that.


Originally posted by Dogstar Dogstar wrote:

What does RE want from SMA that it doesn't already have?


Can't think of anything.


Looks like you are on purpose ignoring my argument against this. Please respond to that if you want to make that argument. Thank you!

Originally posted by Dogstar Dogstar wrote:

But we don't want to force war on Illy players that don't want it.

We did not want the war. King Sigerius forced us into it. By supporting/enabling Iron so did RE. But we have been there already many times.

We also made fair peace with both Iron and Cersei. Thus it is also possible for SMA.

"Get us what we want or we attack/hurt you" is a typical bully/terrorist move. Just saying Tongue
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RE until now have not attack at any small isolated SMA account with no strategic gain from the war perspective,  in order to increase the cost of the other side, like SMA did 
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Thirion View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Sif Sif wrote:

RE until now have not attack at any small isolated SMA account with no strategic gain from the war perspective,  in order to increase the cost of the other side, like SMA did 


Just because you repeat the same argument doesn't make it true. Tongue

All attacks SMA did had a strategic gain. We attacked the Elgea and non-Westmarch cities because
  1. We needed to make sure that we would not get attacked "in the back", i.e. have open vulnerabilities outside of the core war regions. Not being attacked in Elgea and having our "economy" protected made a lot of things easier.
  2. We also needed to paint the picture that SMA was serious about the war.
RE on the other hand attacked our smaller players in Northmarch which did not have any strategic gain (as those players are not going to decide the war) while ignoring our war wagons in Coanhara and Aindara (which made a huge difference).

 No point in discussing this over and over.
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Donna was one of that accounts.
Hopefully RE has no other isolated towns
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"Get us what we want or we attack/hurt you" is a typical bully/terrorist move. Just saying

Who are you calling a terrorist? Are you making a personal attack? That language is inappropriate, yet you insist on continuing to use it, and have made other disgusting analogies to me via IGM.

You need to shut your mouth.
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Thirion View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Dogstar Dogstar wrote:

Who are you calling a terrorist?

I made a general statement. Interesting that you feel addressed.

And yes, that statement was there to bait you. In my opinion you feeling addressed shows that you know there is some truth behind your "Get us what we want or we attack/hurt you" approach.

Originally posted by Dogstar Dogstar wrote:

Are you making a personal attack? 

How is this a personal attack? When i use words like "aggressor, bully, griefer or terrorist" i criticize someones approach to the game. Nothing personal. 

For me this is a (more extreme) version of content. Some players like to be aggressive. In my opinion there should also be players to call them out for it.

Illyriad is a game. In games words from the real world are used to name/explain something or paint a picture. But of course there is a difference between games and real life!

In my opinion the following statements are personal attacks and inappropiate:
  • Thirion is so sad
  • You are the biggest loser I have ever seen.
  • Telling me to seek professional help in real life
You made those statements. You do not know anything about me in real life - thus why make those comments? You do not have to like me. That is completely fine. But why personally attack me?

Originally posted by Dogstar Dogstar wrote:

That language is inappropriate

In my opinion naming actions that resemble a real life action in game with the real life name is not inappropriate. In fact it is done a lot. Of course there are limitations there (e.g. using words/symbols that are forbidden by laws). But in my opinion the names i am using do not fall under the category. In case they do i am glad to stop and apologize for it.

Originally posted by Dogstar Dogstar wrote:

You need to shut your mouth.

In my opinion this statement is inappropiate.
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Originally posted by Thirion Thirion wrote:

[QUOTE=Dogstar]
"Get us what we want or we attack/hurt you" is a typical bully/terrorist move. Just saying Tongue


im sorry but equating a person's actions in a videogame to being a "terrorist" is incredibly unhinged and borderline pyschotic. its not justifiable
Woof!
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Out of all the teams I have fought for the past decade, I have never encountered a team like Sma. Literally buying the developers. Cheat using GDT? Pay enough pres. My sentinels should be able to reach the bl in under 5 days, wish granted. 

When Sin disbanded, Iron didn't gloat about that. We were at war. It wasn't a win. Even though our sole purpose was to fight Sin.
We certainly never called them terrorists. 
Re has already won in Westmarch, 100%. Fighting them more is aggressive than them clearing THEIR REGION, they already won,  accept that.
Hurting the game isn't worth it Thirion. I have fought constantly for the past decade. The only thing anyone can win  is an apology. I promise that. 

Enjoy destroying a team that had advantage over you before you cheated.
I've never met such bad sports. I'll never play with you again. You're what ruins this game. Threaten to quit again, write a message in the forums. Will that be the 3rd or 4th time you've done that within a year?
Manipulate people more. I like war. 
Don't turn your back.









thirion



Edited by King Sigerius - 10 Aug 2024 at 22:33
KS
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Originally posted by King Sigerius King Sigerius wrote:

Out of all the teams I have fought for the past decade, I have never encountered a team like Sma. Literally buying the developers. Cheat using GDT? Pay enough pres. My sentinels should be able to reach the bl in under 5 days, wish granted. 

When Sin disbanded, Iron didn't gloat about that. We were at war. It wasn't a win. Even though our sole purpose was to fight Sin.
We certainly never called them terrorists. 
Re has already won in Westmarch, 100%. Fighting them more is aggressive than them clearing THEIR REGION, they already won,  accept that.
Hurting the game isn't worth it Thirion. I have fought constantly for the past decade. The only thing anyone can win  is an apology. I promise that. 

Enjoy destroying a team that had advantage over you before you cheated.
I've never met such bad sports. I'll never play with you again. You're what ruins this game. Threaten to quit again, write a message in the forums. Will that be the 3rd or 4th time you've done that within a year?
Manipulate people more. I like war. 
Don't turn your back.

thirion



Sorry (long) rant incoming. I do think this is a really important topic. This is my personal opinion and not a statement from SMA or as a SMA leader!

You do not seem to understand the situation you put us into. All we asked was to be left alone. You decided to be aggressive against us. You decided to bully and grief us. You started this - thus most of it is on you (more details and reasons later). Without your aggression all of this would not have happened. The decision YOU made is hurting the game!

All we asked was to be left alone. You did not. Because of this you put us into the following position:

Let me try to explain the part above and start with the "win conditions" and goals of the war:

Iron wanted to have fun and have a fun little war. Which is completely fine. Unfortunately you decided to go against a non warfare alliance.

I offered you a "fair" (and fun) war. You would have gotten white peace no questions asked. It would have been fun for both sides and both sides would have learned a lot. And it would have been good for the game.

Unfortunately you said no. You wanted to bully and grief us. You forced us into something we did not want. Thus we "lose" by just being in the war. Which means our "win condition" or goal is the following: We only win when you do not win. Thus we win when you do not have fun and/or do not get what you want.

Summary: When two warfare alliances fight each other then both "win conditions" are to have fun and display skill. Which is good for both sides and thus good for Illyriad!

When a warfare alliance fights a non-warfare alliance then the non-warfare alliances has the "win condition" to make the war as unfun for the opponent as possible. Which is bad for both sides and thus bad for Illyriad!

But you still decided to be aggressive against us. That is on you!



Let me quote the first post of the Warmonger blog:


Originally posted by Warmonger blog Warmonger blog wrote:

When Illyriad war has sucked, it was because non-combatants got involved in wars. I really, genuinely mean that in the worst way possible. There are many tournament players in Illyriad, and some of them nurse grudges for a very long time. It's entirely possible to batter down a superior opponent by applying sheer mass, but that isn't what I'm talking about. Like knights in the age of chivalry, the elite fighters in Illyriad have a code of honor about warfare. They don't zero the accounts of defeated opponents, nor do they batter defeated alliances into extinction. Surrender is offered generously to almost all opponents. In fact, historically the people who outright obliterated accounts were almost always from the ranks of the peaceniks. Curious how that worked out.


Originally posted by Warmonger blog Warmonger blog wrote:

If there's one thing I want you to take away from the very first post on this blog, it is this: war in Illyriad can be an invigorating test of skill and teamwork, but only when both sides of the conflict are honorable combatants.


And here is the problem. As i explained before: Non-warfare players got forced into something they did not want. Non-warfare players "lose" by just being in the war. Thus they do not want to give the opponent what they want. Which in this case means giving you a "fun" war. If non-warfare players give you a "fun" and "easy" war - then we lose. Thus our "win condition" unfortunately is to not make the war "fun" and "easy" to get out.

The Ascn war is the best example for this. In my opinion Ascn made the war as boring as possible for the warfare players and thus "bore them to death". And in my opinion it worked really well.

I have been arguing the same topic and points for over 2 years now. Warfare vs warfare wars are good for both sides and good for the game. Warfare vs non-warfare alliances are bad for both sides and bad for the game. The Ascn war has shown this. The SMA war has shown this.

And yes, in my personal opinion this is a game design issue. Thus the devs should find a way to fix this!

So in the end your whole post is kinda a compliment for me. Thank you for that!

Originally posted by King Sigerius King Sigerius wrote:

Don't turn your back.

No worries i won't. When the war started i knew i might never get out of this as long as i play Illyriad. Which in my opinion is another "game design" issue - but thats how it is.

Conclusion:

One of my main goals was always to improve Illyriad for all players. Both Warfare and non-warfare players. This is another approach. Maybe it is going to work this time. The hundredth time is the charm Wink

We can continue "hurting" each others. Or we can finally realize the situation and move on to a more fun and healthier future for all players. The decision is yours.
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You may actually be a sociopath. 
KS
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