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The Great War

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abstractdream View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote abstractdream Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2015 at 00:51
Originally posted by Mona Lisa Mona Lisa wrote:

... I did raze many cities of TVM,...As for the strategy, you can simply look at the map and where my cities were,  I was largely in the far north,...  In order for me to be able to lend assistance against the main coalition players, those cities of their allies that lay near me(often within 10-20 sq ) and along my path south, needed to be dealt with one way or another.  I could hardly sit and ignore alliances like TVM (who had no love loss with Crow), ...when they were positioned with the ability to attack my home while my troops were weeks away.  It really is just a simple and well worn principle in military science, protect your bases and lines of supply. 

...War is . . . war , cities tend to be razed during war. Every single one of my targeted opponents was given the option of saving their properties, quite a few did. Some took the stance of fighting to the death, an entirely valid option.   ...I have absolutely no regrets, nor would I have done anything different.
I just want to say, Mona Lisa did more for the GA's war effort than she's letting on. I don't know how far TVM would have gotten without her targeting us (we would have been knocked out sometime, just a fact) but I know there were a lot of EE (and others, likely) armies and cities that were not targeted because of her. The NE of Elgea played little part in the overall because of her.

I know war dredges up a lot of negative emotions, so some time after it I wanted to take this opportunity to comment on the effective nature of this warrior. I suppose too, it's a way to defend TVM's mostly ineffective participation in the war. I hope I've managed to do both.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mona Lisa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2015 at 00:30
Originally posted by Epidemic Epidemic wrote:

Am I correct in assuming your other account is Le Roux? If so, both your accounts were used to siege/raze the majority of your opponents in the northeast of Illyriad. You were probably the most destructive crow player during the war, besides the player who had a personal grievance with RES and mercilessly sieged/razed as many cities as he could. Did you know about this? Did you partake? What are your feelings about this and what is your reasoning behind the carnage?

Of course Le Roux is my commonly known alt (obviously I could not have been in two places at once, in both vCrow and nCrow).  As for me being the most "destructive crow player during the war" somehow I sense greatly blows out of proportion the impact I had in the overall war.  Many battles were fought in the war, many cities were razed.  I surely hold no unique place in that respect (except in the minds of my foes perhaps) I did have large armies, I did raze many cities of TVM, Dlords and H? (including some of KP's ;) nothing was personal). There were plenty of people with more combat than I in the war.

As for the strategy, you can simply look at the map and where my cities were,  I was largely in the far north, the bulk of the truly threatening Coalition cities of H?, NC, RES, Dlords lay very distant to my south. My participation in attacking any of those cities would necessitate my armies traveling a week or two in each direction.  In order for me to be able to lend assistance against the main coalition players, those cities of their allies that lay near me(often within 10-20 sq ) and along my path south, needed to be dealt with one way or another.  I could hardly sit and ignore alliances like TVM (who had no love loss with Crow), or the northern outposts of Dlords and H? when they were positioned with the ability to attack my home while my troops were weeks away.  It really is just a simple and well worn principle in military science, protect your bases and lines of supply. 

While the core of vCrow attacked  in the south, I worked my way down down the North. Strategically logical and sound.  I was methodical and efficient. If you wish to consider it ruthless, so be it. 

It may have appeared harsh to those viewing it from afar, but in reality, unless I was going to sit out the war, my options were fairly limited. 

War is . . . war , cities tend to be razed during war. Every single one of my targeted opponents was given the option of saving their properties, quite a few did.  Many exodused as my legions approached. Some took the stance of fighting to the death, an entirely valid option.   I literally have hundreds of IGM's discussing ways to avoid carnage.  We cannot control whether or not people negotiate.  My conscience is blissfully clear and at peace ; )

I have absolutely no regrets, nor would I have done anything different.  (hopefully at least my allies appreciated my efforts ; ) )


Edited by Mona Lisa - 24 Jan 2015 at 01:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abstractdream Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2015 at 00:18
Originally posted by GM Rikoo GM Rikoo wrote:

Each alliance (or something like that) sends a leader or rep to join me on a livestream to discuss this war, but also war in general. 

It would make for a great listen.

I wanted to cover more details about fighting anyway... why not cover a war?
GM Rikoo


I'd be very interested in listening to this. If it's gonna be focused on the last war, I would hope you can build a balanced panel. There are a whole lot more players who participated on the winning side so it shouldn't be too hard to fill that side of the table. For the loosing side, I'd like to hear (not that you asked for nominations) Starry and KP, Nokigon, Sir Bradly and Wild Monk. I think these folks would be amazing to listen to. They have a couple decades worth of Illy experience between them and tons of skill and are all extremely intelligent.

Just my 2 cents.

Edited by abstractdream - 24 Jan 2015 at 00:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2015 at 23:35
Originally posted by Epidemic Epidemic wrote:

Am I correct in assuming your other account is Le Roux? If so, both your accounts were used to siege/raze the majority of your opponents in the northeast of Illyriad. You were probably the most destructive crow player during the war... What are your feelings about this and what is your reasoning behind the carnage?
lol. which part of "Banshee of the North" did you find equivocal?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nokigon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2015 at 23:04
Tamaeon- I know. I was simply challenging Rills assertion that there is no dominant illy confederation, something which I personally believe to be erroneous. I have never been any doubt as to who holds the balance of power in post-war Illy.

Edited by Nokigon - 23 Jan 2015 at 23:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Epidemic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2015 at 22:42
Originally posted by Mona Lisa Mona Lisa wrote:

.. It should be noted,  I left Illy during the war (primarily due to real life pressures, I was involved in a large US litigation that took more hours than were in the day) but long after the outcome was certain, and have been gone from any Crow leadership position for far more than 6+ months, my views are mine alone and do not represent those of current or other past management  ; )


Am I correct in assuming your other account is Le Roux? If so, both your accounts were used to siege/raze the majority of your opponents in the northeast of Illyriad. You were probably the most destructive crow player during the war, besides the player who had a personal grievance with RES and mercilessly sieged/razed as many cities as he could. Did you know about this? Did you partake? What are your feelings about this and what is your reasoning behind the carnage?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tamaeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2015 at 22:29
Originally posted by Nokigon Nokigon wrote:

Originally posted by Tamaeon Tamaeon wrote:

Originally posted by GM Rikoo GM Rikoo wrote:

If the alliances in this thread want to share something that was alliance-wide and shared with others, like a Terms of Surrender, go for it. I'm like anyone else and enjoy these type of discussions. 
I don't think this disclosure is necessary, but I want issue a fair warning to any of the alliances involved in the war. Sharing the Terms of Surrender in private or disclosing them to the larger public is a direct violation of multilateral agreements and may lead to repercussions. Unless of course, the alliances involved agree to the disclosure of terms.

I've said before that I personally don't object to disclosure, though I cannot speak for anyone but myself. In fact my blessing no longer matters, as the alliance which I led during the war no longer exists.
If no dominant confederation exists, then exactly who implements the repercussions referenced by Tamaeon?
Nokigon, I think you already gave the best answer to that in one of your earlier posts. 

Originally posted by Nokigon Nokigon wrote:

I'm very much in favour of revealing the terms of DBs surrender. If dittobite and the other leaders of the GA are in favour, I will post them here. However- I have agreed non disclosure so I will need specific agreement to do so.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nokigon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2015 at 22:16
Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

I think one of the good things that came out of the last war is that there is NOT a dominant confederation on the server.  The alliances that came together to fight what can be seen as the previous dominant confederation did so for their own reasons.  Our interests ran together for a time.  In some cases they still run together.

Originally posted by Tamaeon Tamaeon wrote:

Originally posted by GM Rikoo GM Rikoo wrote:

If the alliances in this thread want to share something that was alliance-wide and shared with others, like a Terms of Surrender, go for it. I'm like anyone else and enjoy these type of discussions. 
I don't think this disclosure is necessary, but I want issue a fair warning to any of the alliances involved in the war. Sharing the Terms of Surrender in private or disclosing them to the larger public is a direct violation of multilateral agreements and may lead to repercussions. Unless of course, the alliances involved agree to the disclosure of terms.

I've said before that I personally don't object to disclosure, though I cannot speak for anyone but myself. In fact my blessing no longer matters, as the alliance which I led during the war no longer exists. However, I still have access to the leaders of the GA alliances and would be happy to lobby for their approval, provided the Coalition agrees to the release of terms from previous wars. 

I would much prefer the terms can be disclosed in a new thread.


If no dominant confederation exists, then exactly who implements the repercussions referenced by Tamaeon?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2015 at 22:09
Here's the link to Albatross's excellent "map" of Crow history

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2015 at 21:59
In response to the question about what the "dominant" confederation is on the server, and speaking as the leader of absolutely no one but instead as someone who has her own point of view:

I think one of the good things that came out of the last war is that there is NOT a dominant confederation on the server.  The alliances that came together to fight what can be seen as the previous dominant confederation did so for their own reasons.  Our interests ran together for a time.  In some cases they still run together.

However, I don't think any of those alliances wishes to dominate the server.  Most just want to be strong enough to be left alone.  The server seems to be fine without anyone dominating it.

Will another alliance or group of alliances eventually rise up and become dominant?  Maybe, but not necessarily.

With regard to confederation agreements between Crow alliances and between Crow alliances and non-Crow alliances:  Many Crow alliances have always maintained confederation agreements with non-Crow alliances.  In all cases these alliances are not seen as pledging the support of any OTHER Crow alliances to support that confederated alliance.  This was the occasion of some debate and discussion a couple of years ago among Crow leadership.

There is a very interesting post somewhere on the forum on the history of the Crow alliances.  I think it would make interesting reading.  I'll try to dig up a link.

One thing that I perceive to be true about the Crow Fed, although I was not here for its entire history, is that it was never intended to function as a power bloc.  It is a group of alliances that share, to one degree or another, common values and perspective on the game.  I largely agree with Angrim's post elsewhere about what those values are, although Angrim and I, and Crows in general, have disagreed in the past about how those values should be implemented.  It's an ongoing dialogue.
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