The Great War |
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Jejune 
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Joined: 10 Feb 2013 Status: Offline Points: 1015 |
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 Posted: 19 Jan 2015 at 11:40 |
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Since some here are trying to push back against propaganda, I'll do my part with the flippant little joke above. In spite of the propagandistic talking points that Consone Scum somehow managed to make into a fact, the Coalition/Consone war did not begin over a Trove mine. The Trove mine incident was a pvp conflict between an RHY and Skeleton Boar player; RHY declared war not on SkB, but on ABSA who jumped in and attacked the RHY player as a "third man in." I know the losers of that war like to minimize its casus belli to make their loss seem more like an atrocity, but in fact, any other alliance would have declared war under the same circumstances. In fact, Indeva showed incredible restraint. Those who forget should read the addenda to the RHY casus belli on the old RHY public forum.
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Tamaeon
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Joined: 19 Dec 2011 Location: Centrum Status: Offline Points: 152 |
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Posted: 19 Jan 2015 at 11:24 |
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Cheers Brand, I totally agree that xCKx cannot be compared to BANE in terms of military capability. This was probably the main reason why it took a few more weeks and another war before the actual Great War broke out.
hahaha +1!  I like the idea of applying this logic to all future wars. We could call it the "Trove Continuum". To me the NC vs. BANE war would rank 8.5 on the Trove Continuum, although I'll be the first to admit that my opinion is not devoid of bias.
I can't speak for the entire Grand Alliance, but a few leaders (myself included) made a pretty elaborate analysis, anticipating how the war would unfold. Most of our predictions were wrong, but we got some of the crucial ones right. For example which alliances would join the coalition side, and how that would define the makeup of the battlefield. One thing we were dead wrong about, was our mistaken belief that the Dominion could be "forced" (for lack of a better term) out of the war early on. It would ultimately take 7 alliances, a lot of destruction, and a substantial amount of diplomacy before they agreed it was time to bring that stage of the war to an end. As far as the general campaign, I think we expected the war to last some 2 to 6 months max. |
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"How happy is the blameless vestal's lot! The world forgetting, by the world forgot. Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind! Each prayer accepted, and each wish resigned."
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Tamaeon
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Joined: 19 Dec 2011 Location: Centrum Status: Offline Points: 152 |
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Posted: 19 Jan 2015 at 10:49 |
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I have to agree with you. The reality is that we couldn't have known whether we would actually win the war. Our confidence in believing that the war was won from the onset, was due more to hubris than actual fact; as most of us (i.e. those who believed this) were new to warfare and didn't really know what we were getting ourselves into. Saying that we "knew" the war would be won from the onset, is more an honest admission of pride, arrogance and our personal expectations... rather than an objective assessment based on the facts. It's obvious that we couldn't have known, since wars are often unpredictable. That being said, I am quite happy that we did win, despite the high cost of the war.
I want make a small correction here, as I did not say that the war was planned so far in advance. It was Epidemic who made that allusion, as quoted below...
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"How happy is the blameless vestal's lot! The world forgetting, by the world forgot. Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind! Each prayer accepted, and each wish resigned."
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Aurordan
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Player Council - Ambassador Joined: 21 Sep 2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 982 |
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Posted: 19 Jan 2015 at 10:48 |
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I'm sure they'll get right on that.
On a serious note, talk to your alliance if you want to know more, the knowledge is in there. There is literally no reason to dredge up this whole mess again months later. Plus, alliances accepting surrender usually agree to keep the terms to themselves as well. I doubt they'll be interested in breaking their word there.
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Jejune
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Joined: 10 Feb 2013 Status: Offline Points: 1015 |
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Posted: 19 Jan 2015 at 09:48 |
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Having missed the war, I'm surprised to learn of this. So, the terms of surrender stipulate that the terms of surrender are not to be stated publicly in the game? Am I reading this correctly? If so, then I'll say this... In a game where over the past few months many veteran players have railed against what they perceive to be a lack of transparency in how the game is moderated, I'm surprised that the gaming community has allowed this, and not demanded that the terms be made public. As the Captain suggested, the fact that they are being held from the public eye only adds weight to the opinion of those who feel that they were draconian. Now that this war is over and that it is being discussed in this forum, I think it's time for the victors to post the surrender terms. Certainly, what harm will it bring? The losers of the war accepted them and paid them, and there are obviously a lot of hard feelings about them already. No further harm can come from making them public, but there can be some good. As someone who was not in the war and not bound by any "gag order," I'm calling for a full disclosure of the Great War's surrender terms 1) in the interest of full transparency, 2) so that the entire gaming community can get a clearer sense of the consequences of this war, and 3) so that we can learn from this war, which will undoubtedly inform how future wars are prosecuted. |
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abstractdream
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Joined: 02 Oct 2011 Location: Oarnamly Status: Offline Points: 1857 |
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Posted: 19 Jan 2015 at 03:39 |
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Here is an illustration of my alliance, TRIVIUM before and after the war. This is only in reference to the Ursor area.
 BEFORE  AFTER The BEFORE image is from April, 2013. At the time our total population was over 1.7 million. Of the members who survived the war and remained in TRIVIUM, every one of us lost at least one city to siege. After the war we were down to around 500,000 population. The AFTER image is current as of this post. Anyone interested in how we are doing now, please refer to in-game data. Edited by abstractdream - 19 Jan 2015 at 04:18 |
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abstractdream
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Joined: 02 Oct 2011 Location: Oarnamly Status: Offline Points: 1857 |
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Posted: 19 Jan 2015 at 02:39 |
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I know, "but they were hounded so much they wanted to quit" or some such. Quit is the key word. There are only, maybe two cases in Illy history of a player being hounded to the point where they couldn't rebuild and continue (and even then, they could come back in another account). As hard as it is for so many of you to accept, this is a game and no matter how long you play it, the crap you make here could be erased from the server. Tough luck, move on. Edited by abstractdream - 19 Jan 2015 at 02:46 |
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Osu
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Joined: 07 Mar 2013 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 24 |
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Posted: 18 Jan 2015 at 22:32 |
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Good idea. In terms of tragic losses, is there a list of the players who were sieged out of the game by the Grand Alliance?
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Rill
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Player Council - Geographer Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 6903 |
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Posted: 18 Jan 2015 at 22:31 |
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I would say probably the most epic battle of the war was the one that, alas, never really happened.
That would be the siege of Electrok's city, where a bunch of armies primarily from Crow but including pretty much everyone in the alliance gathered in a large siege camp. Accounts of the precise number vary, but I lost count around 6 million. Night Crusaders and Harmless? prepared a substantial attack on that siege camp, but unfortunately timed their attacks so precisely that they broke the server ... literally. Their armies circled the siege without attacking for days, trapping all other incoming armies in a giant troop vortex. I think this episode dealt a substantial morale blow to both sides, although realistically they could not have defeated that siege camp even with all of their combined forces. It is a matter for speculation whether this bug prolonged the war because the Coalition did not spend their troops in attempting to do so (assuming they would have if given the opportunity, which the fact that many of the attacks were raids suggests otherwise). It's also possible that it shortened the war due to the morale effects. Note that I am not intending at all to speak pejoratively of the Coalition when I cite these morale effects. To have a potentially epic battle essentially prevented by a server error, which remained unaddressed for more than 24 hours and even after days or weeks was not fully corrected by restoration of armies, is a disheartening thing. The fact that this happened during the Long Silence of the developers did not help. In my opinion, if this battle had gone off without a bug, it would have been a lot more fun for both sides, although the result (loss of the city) would probably have been the same. The fact that what should have been epic and fun instead became an exercise in frustration probably did not improve the general tone of the war.
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Hora
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Joined: 10 May 2010 Status: Offline Points: 839 |
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Posted: 18 Jan 2015 at 21:50 |
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Could I make the suggestion to sum up that one point about reparations? Else we'll circle around the same point for thousands of post without any new input.
________________________________________________________________ A possible note to the history books might be: Reparations as part of the surrender terms had been paid in items, gold and cities. While some participants adumbrate tremendous amounts, others state a reasonable relation to amounts paid in the preceding Consone war. As both sides of this as well as both sides of the Consone war decided to remain silent - honouring both terms of surrender - the exact counts of reparations will stay a secret. ________________________________________________________________ I guess we saw some hints at the course of events regarding the beginning of the war now (many thanks for those lenghty posts from both sides  ).As this ought to be a history book... would any participant want to highlight some special tactics, legendary battles (maybe even with a short report), tragic losses, etc.?
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Tamaeon wrote: