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The Great War

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GM Rikoo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote GM Rikoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2015 at 16:21
The post isn't doing so bad, considering the topic. Keep discussing it all you want. :)

If I find a post that doesn't work with the rules of civil (mostly) conversation, I will just delete it and move on. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nokigon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2015 at 17:46
I think it is worth noting that the reparations paid by Consone took the form of cities lost by the alliance, with a small number of adv resources in reparations. This was undoubtedly supposed to hold Consone back by a few months. The reparations paid by the Coalition had the intent of lining the Grand Alliances pockets.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Kindly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2015 at 17:55
Originally posted by Nokigon Nokigon wrote:

I think it is worth noting that the reparations paid by Consone took the form of cities lost by the alliance, with a small number of adv resources in reparations. This was undoubtedly supposed to hold Consone back by a few months. The reparations paid by the Coalition had the intent of lining the Grand Alliances pockets.

... and making sure the losing side had less to spend at the same time, I'd say.

I, too, am aware of those so-called 'fair demands'. Like Angrim, I am bound.*  However, the fact that GA refuses to discuss them openly even now should tell enough.

*(although, if one believes such demands stay a secret in Illy, one should think a second time, and a third time)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Mahaut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2015 at 20:18
Irrespective of anything else that this thread is about.
My alliance was in the Consone War, when we sued for peace we were told by H? leadership that all discussions were to be kept secret, all terms were to be kept secret and under no circumstances were they to be discussed with anyone - at any time.

My alliance was part of the Grand Alliance. The references to discussions about surrender were the same

Move on folks - nothing unusual to see here


Edited by Mahaut - 18 Jan 2015 at 20:19
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2015 at 21:50
Could I make the suggestion to sum up that one point about reparations? Else we'll circle around the same point for thousands of post without any new input.
________________________________________________________________
A possible note to the history books might be: 
Reparations as part of the surrender terms had been paid in items, gold and cities. While some participants adumbrate tremendous amounts, others state a reasonable relation to amounts paid in the preceding Consone war. As both sides of this as well as both sides of the Consone war decided to remain silent - honouring both terms of surrender - the exact counts of reparations will stay a secret.
________________________________________________________________

I guess we saw some hints at the course of events regarding the beginning of the war now (many thanks for those lenghty posts from both sides Clap).

As this ought to be a history book... would any participant want to highlight some special tactics, legendary battles (maybe even with a short report), tragic losses, etc.?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2015 at 22:31
I would say probably the most epic battle of the war was the one that, alas, never really happened.

That would be the siege of Electrok's city, where a bunch of armies primarily from Crow but including pretty much everyone in the alliance gathered in a large siege camp.  Accounts of the precise number vary, but I lost count around 6 million.

Night Crusaders and Harmless? prepared a substantial attack on that siege camp, but unfortunately timed their attacks so precisely that they broke the server ... literally.  Their armies circled the siege without attacking for days, trapping all other incoming armies in a giant troop vortex.

I think this episode dealt a substantial morale blow to both sides, although realistically they could not have defeated that siege camp even with all of their combined forces. It is a matter for speculation whether this bug prolonged the war because the Coalition did not spend their troops in attempting to do so (assuming they would have if given the opportunity, which the fact that many of the attacks were raids suggests otherwise).  It's also possible that it shortened the war due to the morale effects.

Note that I am not intending at all to speak pejoratively of the Coalition when I cite these morale effects.  To have a potentially epic battle essentially prevented by a server error, which remained unaddressed for more than 24 hours and even after days or weeks was not fully corrected by restoration of armies, is a disheartening thing.  The fact that this happened during the Long Silence of the developers did not help.

In my opinion, if this battle had gone off without a bug, it would have been a lot more fun for both sides, although the result (loss of the city) would probably have been the same.  The fact that what should have been epic and fun instead became an exercise in frustration probably did not improve the general tone of the war.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Osu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2015 at 22:32
Originally posted by Hora Hora wrote:


As this ought to be a history book... would any participant want to highlight some special tactics, legendary battles (maybe even with a short report), tragic losses, etc.?


Good idea.  In terms of tragic losses, is there a list of the players who were sieged out of the game by the Grand Alliance?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abstractdream Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2015 at 02:39
Originally posted by Osu Osu wrote:

In terms of tragic losses, is there a list of the players who were sieged out of the game by the Grand Alliance?
Been said a hundred times but it bears repeating, here, now: one cannot be literally "sieged out of the game," and everyone posting here knows it. No one was sieged out of the game by anyone; not by NS, not by the Coalition, not by the Grand Alliance.

I know, "but they were hounded so much they wanted to quit" or some such. Quit is the key word. There are only, maybe two cases in Illy history of a player being hounded to the point where they couldn't rebuild and continue (and even then, they could come back in another account). As hard as it is for so many of you to accept, this is a game and no matter how long you play it, the crap you make here could be erased from the server. Tough luck, move on.

Edited by abstractdream - 19 Jan 2015 at 02:46
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote abstractdream Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2015 at 03:39
Here is an illustration of my alliance, TRIVIUM before and after the war. This is only in reference to the Ursor area.


BEFORE


AFTER


The BEFORE image is from April, 2013. At the time our total population was over 1.7 million. Of the members who survived the war and remained in TRIVIUM, every one of us lost at least one city to siege. After the war we were down to around 500,000 population.

The AFTER image is current as of this post. Anyone interested in how we are doing now, please refer to in-game data.

Edited by abstractdream - 19 Jan 2015 at 04:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jejune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2015 at 09:48
Originally posted by Captain Kindly Captain Kindly wrote:

I, too, am aware of those so-called 'fair demands'. Like Angrim, I am bound.*  However, the fact that GA refuses to discuss them openly even now should tell enough.

Having missed the war, I'm surprised to learn of this. So, the terms of surrender stipulate that the terms of surrender are not to be stated publicly in the game? Am I reading this correctly? If so, then I'll say this...

In a game where over the past few months many veteran players have railed against what they perceive to be a lack of transparency in how the game is moderated, I'm surprised that the gaming community has allowed this, and not demanded that the terms be made public. As the Captain suggested, the fact that they are being held from the public eye only adds weight to the opinion of those who feel that they were draconian.

Now that this war is over and that it is being discussed in this forum, I think it's time for the victors to post the surrender terms. Certainly, what harm will it bring? The losers of the war accepted them and paid them, and there are obviously a lot of hard feelings about them already. No further harm can come from making them public, but there can be some good. 

As someone who was not in the war and not bound by any "gag order," I'm calling for a full disclosure of the Great War's surrender terms 1) in the interest of full transparency, 2) so that the entire gaming community can get a clearer sense of the consequences of this war, and 3) so that we can learn from this war, which will undoubtedly inform how future wars are prosecuted.

 

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