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The Great War

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Hora View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2015 at 21:08
Originally posted by Epidemic Epidemic wrote:

Originally posted by Hora Hora wrote:

Thus, maybe the big alliances now prepared some diplomatic ways to handle an enemy not going to surrender. And maybe everyone learned the cost of such a policy and thinks twice about
Players were being sieged from the game right from the get go, it was not some last ditch effort to 'work for peace' against players who refused to listen to peaceful talks, it was a systematic purge of all enemies with a total disregard for how wars were fought in the past and a complete lack of foresight towards the future. It was carnage for the sake of entertainment, pure and simple. Don't try to rewrite history.

So far, most sieges were an "or else" case. Like in "stop attacking/thiefing/insulting or else" or, in this case, "surrender and get the easy way out, or else we'll fight on".

I don't try to rewrite anything, as I used many useless forumpost in trying to convince both sides to stop fighting. And when I get lots of denials, especially from the loosing side, my pity is running low. 
Some players chose the "easy" way out, and were definitly better off than those who kept on... and I guess that's exactly the objective of surrender: trying to talk the attackers into stopping while you still have something left Wink


Edited by Hora - 24 Jan 2015 at 21:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brandmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2015 at 21:00
Originally posted by Hora Hora wrote:

Originally posted by Gragnog Gragnog wrote:

GA set the new standard for war and now need to deal with it. you reap what you sow.
I really hope this war will NOT be the new standard!

You can close the barn door, but I think that horse is long gone. The limits on account destruction were a community standard. As the new über-powerful military bloc, the Grand Alliance sets the tone for warfare in the community. Scorched earth is common in other MMORTS, so it was probably inevitable that it would eventually appear in Illyriad.

Edit: deleted weird formatting html.

Edited by Brandmeister - 24 Jan 2015 at 21:02
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2015 at 20:00
I'm sure you found it entertaining, Epidemic, particularly as you raked in all the gold from both sides.  Speaking as one of the people involved, I found defending to be a lot more fun than attacking.  

The war did have its fun moments (and I salute T-O, DB, TCol, BSH, DLords and H? for providing the most fun and challenging aspect that I personally participated in, the sieges of Ely and Over), but speaking for myself, sieging is pretty dull, as is writing mails politely requesting that people surrender before you destroy their city.

I agree with Hora that I hope people will have learned things from the past war.   I hope that the lessons taken from this war are 1) if you begin a war, you must be prepared to carry it through, even if the endgame is something you find distasteful; if you can't handle the destruction that is involved in war, then you shouldn't start one and 2) refusing to surrender and "daring" your enemy to destroy you in order to make the other person the bad guy is NOT an effective tactic.

I personally hope never again to be involved in a war like the last one.  In real life, people say "never again" about war, and then even worse wars sometimes follow.  I hope Illy can be different, that at the very least the nature of wars in Illy change and there will be less fighting to the death and demands for reparations and more fun on both sides of a war.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halcyon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2015 at 19:23
Originally posted by Epidemic Epidemic wrote:


Players were being sieged from the game right from the get go, it was not some last ditch effort to 'work for peace' against players who refused to listen to peaceful talks, it was a systematic purge of all enemies with a total disregard for how wars were fought in the past and a complete lack of foresight towards the future. It was carnage for the sake of entertainment, pure and simple. Don't try to rewrite history.

Nonsense. It was war and we did what we had to do in order to win.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Epidemic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2015 at 18:15
Originally posted by Mona Lisa Mona Lisa wrote:

If you wish to consider it ruthless, so be it. 



Thank you for at least being honest. Yes, you were quite brutal for Illy, if this were Tribal Wars i'd say 'good job', but since this type of warfare has never been a part of Illy it became sickening just how brutal the 'peaceful' crowfed and allies became capable of. I for one would not be proud of that.

Originally posted by Hora Hora wrote:


Thus, maybe the big alliances now prepared some diplomatic ways to handle an enemy not going to surrender. And maybe everyone learned the cost of such a policy and thinks twice about



Players were being sieged from the game right from the get go, it was not some last ditch effort to 'work for peace' against players who refused to listen to peaceful talks, it was a systematic purge of all enemies with a total disregard for how wars were fought in the past and a complete lack of foresight towards the future. It was carnage for the sake of entertainment, pure and simple. Don't try to rewrite history.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gragnog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2015 at 16:53
Originally posted by auel auel wrote:

I am sure we will all want to applaud Gragnog for his, as always, positive and insightful contribution to this interesting debate. Clap

Josiah


Dead I rest my case on the bias aspect. Now read the highlighted text.


Edited by Gragnog - 24 Jan 2015 at 17:14
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Hora View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2015 at 16:27
Originally posted by Gragnog Gragnog wrote:

GA set the new standard for war and now need to deal with it. you reap what you sow.
I really hope this war will NOT be the new standard!

At the beginning (or at least after reaching full escalation) there was the credo from the Coalition to never surrender and rather suicide...  well, actually a commonplace propaganda slogan, but as they kept on loosing town after town and STILL refused surrender, the GA maybe had big problems to cope with that.

And for the loosing side: maybe it gave some bonus in PR, but certainly created big additional losses in towns.

Thus, maybe the big alliances now prepared some diplomatic ways to handle an enemy not going to surrender. And maybe everyone learned the cost of such a policy and thinks twice about Wink

Trove war was ended, when most Consone alliances surrendered BEFORE the losses were too big to handle; and when quite some casual gamers quoted they'd quit if the stress level stays constantly at this high level (and some already did...).

It always takes one side to start a war, and both sides to end it without complete destruction. I hope we all learned a bit about politics here Hug


Edited by Hora - 24 Jan 2015 at 16:30
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auel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote auel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2015 at 15:11
I am sure we will all want to applaud Gragnog for his, as always, positive and insightful contribution to this interesting debate. Clap

Josiah
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gragnog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2015 at 08:39
Originally posted by Tamaeon Tamaeon wrote:

Originally posted by abstractdream abstractdream wrote:

Originally posted by GM Rikoo GM Rikoo wrote:

Each alliance (or something like that) sends a leader or rep to join me on a livestream to discuss this war, but also war in general. 

It would make for a great listen.

I wanted to cover more details about fighting anyway... why not cover a war?
GM Rikoo
I'd be very interested in listening to this. If it's gonna be focused on the last war, I would hope you can build a balanced panel. There are a whole lot more players who participated on the winning side so it shouldn't be too hard to fill that side of the table. For the loosing side, I'd like to hear (not that you asked for nominations) Starry and KP, Nokigon, Sir Bradly and Wild Monk. I think these folks would be amazing to listen to. They have a couple decades worth of Illy experience between them and tons of skill and are all extremely intelligent. 
Just my 2 cents.
I would really like to have you Abstract, as well as Belargyle or Jack aubrey, Pellinel, Tacardi and Zenora in the discussion. Perhaps also Isabela from RE and Prares from CK who witnessed the explosion of the great war from the very beginning.


This is quite a pointless exercise as the leaders and players of many of the alliances involved in the war are pretty inactive. GA set the new standard for war and now need to deal with it. you reap what you sow. If you really want an honest discussion about war in general and this "Great War" you should get the leaders of the new alliances joining the game, the small alliances quietly going about their business, and if possible players who left due to the nature of this war. Their voices are the ones that need to be heard, not the bias rantings of those of us that are still here. The feeble excuses of why the war started and why it was so brutal has been discussed so often here it only serves as amusing reading now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tamaeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2015 at 05:08
Originally posted by abstractdream abstractdream wrote:

Originally posted by GM Rikoo GM Rikoo wrote:

Each alliance (or something like that) sends a leader or rep to join me on a livestream to discuss this war, but also war in general. 

It would make for a great listen.

I wanted to cover more details about fighting anyway... why not cover a war?
GM Rikoo
I'd be very interested in listening to this. If it's gonna be focused on the last war, I would hope you can build a balanced panel. There are a whole lot more players who participated on the winning side so it shouldn't be too hard to fill that side of the table. For the loosing side, I'd like to hear (not that you asked for nominations) Starry and KP, Nokigon, Sir Bradly and Wild Monk. I think these folks would be amazing to listen to. They have a couple decades worth of Illy experience between them and tons of skill and are all extremely intelligent. 
Just my 2 cents.
I would really like to have you Abstract, as well as Belargyle or Jack aubrey, Pellinel, Tacardi and Zenora in the discussion. Perhaps also Isabela from RE and Prares from CK who witnessed the explosion of the great war from the very beginning.
"How happy is the blameless vestal's lot! The world forgetting, by the world forgot. Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind! Each prayer accepted, and each wish resigned."
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