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The Great War
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Aurordan View Drop Down
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Points: 982 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aurordan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2015 at 01:10
Originally posted by Osu Osu wrote:


As someone from the losing side, this is my take on it.  The different reasons included revenge and also moving their alliances up the alliance ranking page above Harmless.  Stopping NC was just the public excuse.  When Harmless suggested NC could be restrained this was dismissed out of hand, I guess because that offered neither scope for revenge nor moving up the alliance ranking page.


It's impressive that you could fit so much in here without having any of it be remotely true.  
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Originally posted by Tamaeon Tamaeon wrote:

When making statements in the plural sense I'm generally referring to uCrow, sometimes including some alliances of the GA. For example when referring to "our" growing concerns regarding NC's "adventurism" I'm obviously referring to the broader GA. I understand this may be confusing at times, so I would suggest construing any plural statements as subjective opinions.
you use "obvious" in a way in the way i've noticed you use several other words ("peaceful", for example, a self-description from the uCrow alliance page even as you prosecuted the war). if it "can be confusing", it is not obvious. semantics, i'm sure.

Originally posted by Tamaeon Tamaeon wrote:

What I construe as harassment is the incessant questioning of virtually everything I've said over the past year.
when i see you say something in a public space which i know to be misleading or untrue, i am compelled to correct it. by doing this as a former rook, you colour the public perception of the crows in way which i do not care to share. the remedy is "obvious": if you do not wish to be corrected, do not make false or misleading statements about information i have in places where i will see you do it.

Originally posted by Tamaeon Tamaeon wrote:

One situation that comes to mind happened about a month ago in GC, where you were throwing jabs, while Sir Bradly and Pellinell hurled insults at me, which I can't even repeat on the forums without nuking the entire conversation.
my "jabs" are not repeatable? (i hope you're not saying i must be responsible for Sir Bradly. even Myr couldn't be that, and she is ever so much more disciplined than am i.)

Originally posted by Tamaeon Tamaeon wrote:

I'd frankly feel more at ease had it been clear that you've been subjecting leaders on both sides to the same kind of scrutiny. However, since this does not appear to be the case, my opinion has shifted to reflect this perception. That being said, if I ever feel the need to report you... you'll find out automatically.
i think with very little digging you could find many players, perhaps even whole alliances, that have been unhappy at one time or another because i remind them of something they said, or did, or promised; they're just not usually prepared to derail a forum thread to draw attention to it. to your point, though, you will recall that i was not on the other side, so i can't really be expected to know how things formed up there much less correct them about it.

Originally posted by Tamaeon Tamaeon wrote:

Regarding "The truth", its entirely within the eye of the beholder.
i hope your allies are comfortable with your theory of the infinitely malleable truth. it would seem to make you very difficult to pin down in issues of loyalty and such.

Originally posted by Tamaeon Tamaeon wrote:

Furthermore, if you're unaware of certain aspects, opinions or facts as perceived by alliances on the GA side of the war, it is perhaps a direct consequence of your own choices. If memory serves, you took it upon yourself to unilaterally speak for and define the entire Crow Confederation on the forums. Your post was widely praised by H? and the Coalition, while the broader Crowfed just shook our heads in the background and observed the evolving discussion from a distance.
i did not speak for the confederation, but yes, i did attempt to define it in the wake of Kumomoto's verbal attack on its right to exist. you have so little idea of the reaction from either side that i will not pain the forum readers further with a rebuttal to yet another mischaracterisation of events.

Originally posted by Tamaeon Tamaeon wrote:

I could go on and on detailing how you've been overstepping boundaries and publicly airing dirty laundry that we'd all rather keep inside Crowfed...You know full well, that you've managed to isolate yourself from much of the confederation. So it appears at least to me, that you've been attacking me to build favor with (and/or audition for) other confederations.
i'm sure the forum audience would be quite entertained by the seemingly endless list of my indiscretions vis-à-vis a code which is, afaik, unwritten. i am overstepping boundaries that you set? is that the royal we again, or does it refer to that group of crows which can be confusing but is simultaneous obvious? really, this sort of speculation is petty even for you. you can be assured that you yourself have generated any reason i have to involve myself in your discussions (and so "unmerited" becomes another word you seem to use in reverse).

Originally posted by Tamaeon Tamaeon wrote:

I honestly have no problem with your choice to side with the coalition's version of the events, and I'd very much prefer to bring this discussion to some kind of conclusion somewhere far from the forums and the public eye.
the false dilemma again? my "version of the events" that started the war preexists the revival of the coalition, probably because the events happened before the revival of the coalition, so i don't think the coalition ought to be held responsible for it. why must you insist on the variety of reasons why vCrow allies may have joined the conflict but you insist on one monolithic "version of the events" for "the coalition"? the war is over. there is no longer any reason to demonise your former opponents...unless that is only so you can equate me with them.

as i am a player in the game, i have an igm account that you could have used at any point. i think you know what it's called.
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Points: 24 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Osu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2015 at 23:45
Originally posted by Tamaeon Tamaeon wrote:

In my opinion the only facts that really matter are those which are public knowledge. For example the fact that a number of alliances grouped together to form an ensemble that would later come to be known as the Grand Alliance. We rose together for different reasons, though in response to what most of us perceived as an existential threat in H? and particularly NC. This event would come to be known as the Great War, which raged on for nearly a year and caused much destruction etc etc.


As someone from the losing side, this is my take on it.  The different reasons included revenge and also moving their alliances up the alliance ranking page above Harmless.  Stopping NC was just the public excuse.  When Harmless suggested NC could be restrained this was dismissed out of hand, I guess because that offered neither scope for revenge nor moving up the alliance ranking page.



Originally posted by Epidemic Epidemic wrote:


And don't say they have the opportunity to rebuild, because very, very few people would even bother to rebuild an account that took 2+ years to create and a few days to destroy.


The Grand Alliance knew this.  I recall seeing in GC some of the Grand Alliance being particularly pleased with themselves when hitting non-Prestige users - presumably so that it hurt more & they were more likely to leave the game?
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Originally posted by Halcyon Halcyon wrote:

Originally posted by Tamaeon Tamaeon wrote:

In closing, I want to invite those who opposed the war and especially those who fought on the Coalition side to share of their anecdotes and thoughts about what caused the war. So far most of the comments have been focused around contesting other players opinions, rather than sharing new information.


Having been on the same side as Tama on the war it should come as no surprise that I agree with almost everything he posted in this thread concerning the views of many in the Grand Alliance about what brought the war. I also do not feel that our conduct in the war gives us any reason to apologize: we had what we had to do to win the war.
I would also like to hear more from the oposition - those who actually fought against us and those who chose not to join on either side, but watch from the sidelines.

I agree on this

But I would like to ask people to send their stories directly to Orik in a mail, please?
This is getting old real quick. Repetition, repetition and trolling. 

If you want to troll, hit me up in game. I've made a Trolin the Trolls alliance!

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Originally posted by Nokigon Nokigon wrote:

I'm very much in favour of revealing the terms of DBs surrender. If dittobite and the other leaders of the GA are in favour, I will post them here. However- I have agreed non disclosure so I will need specific agreement to do so.

Again, I am fine with these discussions... in fact I love them. BUT, we cannot allow any posting of private conversations. (I only say this when words like "reveal" are used.) 

Why?

Because people alter them.

Also, they are kept private for a reason. If they were not, they would not be private.

Anyway, if someone wants to post some long list that came across during the war, cool, but let's just say this: if it comes in the form of IGM or PM on the forums, etc, it -- and the post it is in -- will come down and the thread will be closed. 

If posts of screenshots and copied/pasted IGMs or "chatzys" or "Facebook posts" want to be shared, fine, but not on this forum. Sorry. :)

(Not saying you offered that, Noki... just saying.)

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Points: 1452 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nokigon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2015 at 21:44
I'm very much in favour of revealing the terms of DBs surrender. If dittobite and the other leaders of the GA are in favour, I will post them here. However- I have agreed non disclosure so I will need specific agreement to do so.
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Originally posted by Consul Zynot Consul Zynot wrote:

Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

Epidemic didn't sit out and do nothing.  He was a major supplier of weapons to the Grand Alliance he claims to despise.  He made large amounts of gold during the war, and is constantly trying to create dissension in order to attempt to profit the same way again.
LOL i must say that was  a funny comment rill good one XD  LOL
The irony is that it's actually true, and it went beyond just weapons. In fact we received billions in gold loans. I didn't mention this before, because we were asked to keep this a secret to protect Epi's neutrality, but since Rill dropped the bomb... and Zynot quoted her; Epi's involvement as one of the primary suppliers of the GA during the Great War is now a matter of public record, and therefore open to discussion.

Sorry Epi, you brought this on yourself Dead
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Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

Epidemic didn't sit out and do nothing.  He was a major supplier of weapons to the Grand Alliance he claims to despise.  He made large amounts of gold during the war, and is constantly trying to create dissension in order to attempt to profit the same way again.



LOL i must say that was  a funny comment rill good one XD  LOL
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Points: 6903 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2015 at 20:53
Epidemic didn't sit out and do nothing.  He was a major supplier of weapons to the Grand Alliance he claims to despise.  He made large amounts of gold during the war, and is constantly trying to create dissension in order to attempt to profit the same way again.



Edited by Rill - 19 Jan 2015 at 20:55
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