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Rasak
Wordsmith
Joined: 26 Nov 2011
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 140
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Posted: 15 Oct 2012 at 10:26 |
SD... I have utmost respect for you. I was one that received a spell from you... for.. what.. almost 2 months. You are a new players dream. However, I have to ask... Who attacked who first? Then who asked for outside help first? Ganging up on the smaller players was first done by Consone before H? even joined in this conflict. I will admit that some H? players prob chose to join Rhy to help them in their problems. Does that mean H? officially entered the stage? I don't think so. Perhaps H? allows their players the freedom to join outside issues that they feel strongly about, so long as they don't pull H? proper into the conflict (If you feel strongly about this leave H? and do as you feel you must, we will see you when you are ready to come back).
I don't know if that will sooth anyone as far as H? players dropping alliance and joining other alliances when a conflict may come, but I do think that before H? became involved, the Consone alliances were behaving in a much different manner than they were after H? joined the event.
Again we are talking about the past now. Many alliances have declared war on many other alliances. If we are truly trying to solve this, we need to forget what came before and talk about what is now. Even if Rhy and Absa reach a friendly peace out of all this, I don't think Consone and H? are done with each other yet. H? is gonna want something to halt hostilities I think (based on the past) and the same could be said for Consone... of course this is assuming that either side still holds a strong position at the end of this :D
Edited by Rasak - 15 Oct 2012 at 10:27
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Southern Dwarf
Forum Warrior
Joined: 28 Sep 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 281
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Posted: 15 Oct 2012 at 09:51 |
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The following post is just my personal view and got nothing to do with the official policy of Victrix (my alliance):
When I got to Illy roughly one and a half year ago I did not know that the game would be so different from the games I played before (Die Stämme, engl. The Tribes, and Grepolis) so I was pretty much surprised but still cautious and accepted the first invitation to join an alliance (Victrix) and immediately resettled to Larn. Cautious I denied further help from the then training alliance of Invictus and began to build up my towns entirely by farming the ress for myself. I did the maximum number of quests every day to get every ressource I could gather. Then after my first tourney (collecting animal parts) I got into Invictus.
Now there is the reason for this post. While in Invictus I never had any bad experience with our leadership concerning agression vs other alliances. I got of course after starting to cast buffs on random people the sole bad experience with H? who according to Jasche threatened Invictus with war because I was operating three then non-enhanced buffs on StJude's towns. I still think any alliance has no say in the matter who might play this game and who might not. StJude might have been an idiot but since the destruction of a city undoes the work of months in a few days he would have learned his lesson. H? did seem to me to unbalanced in their judgements and completely tyrannic to bully Invictus because they could.
Aside from tansiraine I never met someone friendly or not acting aloof from H? so my opinion stayed posed against them. Likewise I never experienced someone saying anything bad about Invictus and I was quite active in GC where a number of people had their say about quite a number of alliances. Even on this forum I never read so much negative statements until after Consone was founded.
The funniest thing about Consone is for me that Invictus' leadership asked me to relocate to Victrix for alliance restructiering and Victrix decided afterwards they did not want to become part of Consone. Afterwards I had to work more so I logged in only once per day or every two days to issue building and research orders. Now I got a cold and hence more time.
In all of my time in Invictus (about a year) I never experienced the leadership anything else but fair, just and friendly towards anyone in this game. This is why I refuse to believe Invictus had any bad intention in this conflict. If there are evil designs in Consone they come from the limited communication and control mechanisms to hold 11 alliances in line.
I admit that I am not very active in diplomacy - and military - in this game. I prefer to build my cities and cast geomancer spells while trying to get the heart of corruption for myself. So there are for sure many things I will not get.
And one thing I will never get: Where is the fun in ganging upon smaller or peaceful player? I believe the wargame faction seeks to eliminate those who want to experience the difference in Illy in peace. Destruction is allways easier than creation. I would prefer warmonger to war among them and let us non-agressive players in peace. For me this whole conflict is constructed from the start - and I don't care anymore by whom and why.
If it is any help I would pay for the mine in question and rent it for a year.
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Also known as Afaslizo ingame.
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Rasak
Wordsmith
Joined: 26 Nov 2011
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 140
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Posted: 15 Oct 2012 at 08:27 |
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I also am worried about any possible power shift. We know how H? will handle affairs, and it appears we also know how Consone might handle affairs as well. I think I prefer sticking with the H? way of doing things.
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SunStorm
Postmaster
Joined: 01 Apr 2011
Location: "Look Up"
Status: Offline
Points: 979
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Posted: 15 Oct 2012 at 08:27 |
I too would like to thank KP for this thread.
KillerPoodle wrote:
Mr Damage wrote:
I just want to point out that there was at least 1 alliance that stood by Valar when the time came. Prisoners of Society backed their confed Valar, our troops were sent at H siege camps and the result is now history. |
I stand corrected - thanks for reminding me. As I mentioned - there's been a lot of history to try to keep track of.
KP
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Yes, PoS was there for Valar. I do miss BecBlue. When the war was going on, she came to me asking what I thought she should do. I was still in {P A} back then, but I told her that she should do the honorable thing and aid her confederates in their time of need... We both knew what that meant, but it was the right thing to do. I believe your alliance (PoS) limited their involvement to reinforcing and breaking sieges only.
(does anyone still have her on their FB? I seem to have lost her from my contacts... If so, shoot me a message please)
Edited by SunStorm - 15 Oct 2012 at 08:28
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"Side? I am on nobody's side because nobody is on my side" ~LoTR
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Diomedes
Forum Warrior
Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 208
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Posted: 15 Oct 2012 at 07:48 |
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It's an interesting thread, and I thank KP for offering his version of events, as indeed I also thank members of Consone for providing their version of what is happening and why. However, history is replete with wars starting for no other reason than someone wanting to flex their muscles, or feeling slighted by some alleged offence. History also provides many examples of powerful people just wanting a fight. I suspect that, at its core, this particular war has portions of both types. It will be interesting to see if there is a shift in power when the dust settles.
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"Walk in the way of the good, for the righteous will dwell in the land"
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The_Dude
Postmaster General
Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 2396
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Posted: 15 Oct 2012 at 07:11 |
Daunt wrote:
Thanks for writing this. I've wondered what was going through H's head. I disagree with a lot of what you wrote being that I belong to a fairly peaceful guild (in Consone) but at least now I can see why a military guild would view Consone as a threat.
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Are you Daunting in WE? "I belong to a fairly peaceful guild" 
And I have a bridge to sell you.
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Daunt
New Poster
Joined: 14 Oct 2012
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 21
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Posted: 15 Oct 2012 at 06:57 |
Thanks for writing this. I've wondered what was going through H's head. I disagree with a lot of what you wrote being that I belong to a fairly peaceful guild (in Consone) but at least now I can see why a military guild would view Consone as a threat.
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KillerPoodle
Postmaster General
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1853
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Posted: 15 Oct 2012 at 06:28 |
Mr Damage wrote:
I just want to point out that there was at least 1 alliance that stood by Valar when the time came. Prisoners of Society backed their confed Valar, our troops were sent at H siege camps and the result is now history. |
I stand corrected - thanks for reminding me. As I mentioned - there's been a lot of history to try to keep track of. KP
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"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM
"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill
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Beecks
Wordsmith
Joined: 03 Apr 2012
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 194
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Posted: 15 Oct 2012 at 06:19 |
This is a good thread.
While I'll likely be fighting on Consone's side in this conflict, I believe that ABSA instigated the original conflict with RHY through an unnecessary use of force followed by boor-ish negotiating tactics. Given Consone's pattern of behavior, as observed by H?, it's not terribly shocking that they would use this incident to attack now.
I don't find the 'H? as the bully' narrative to be particularly compelling; especially when you consider that if H? really were the warmongers their opponents are making them out to be then why would they have waited nearly a year since their last conflict? If all H? cares about is Machiavellian control of the server then it would've been far smarter to attack 6 months ago when their opponents hadn't yet organized themselves or (as Myr mentioned in GC) they could have waited until just after the tournament ended when their opponents would be at their weakest.
H? grievances are legitimate and if peace is going to be achieved then it's best to acknowledge that they didn't decide to go to war out of nowhere.
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Mr Damage
Postmaster
Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 598
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Posted: 15 Oct 2012 at 06:16 |
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KP, I don't think the post was necessary but well done for putting H's opinion up. Agreed you will get plenty of feedback both positive and negative and all will be irrelevant. Some of your information I have doubts on but there is no need to pursue all of it, this war will rage until there is a victor regardless. I just want to point out that there was at least 1 alliance that stood by Valar when the time came. Prisoners of Society backed their confed Valar, our troops were sent at H siege camps and the result is now history. We are on different sides and naturally there will be little agreement between our viewpoints, you should know enough about me by now to know that I take whatever happens all with a grain of salt, there is enough evidence of that in the old Valar War forums if anyone wants to educate themselves. I am not a H hater, I am envious of your standing and play the game as a competitor but also appreciative at the same time, I would have joined H long ago if I wanted an easy ride but that to me is pointless. All the best for better or worse and see you in the trenches.
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