The Demise of Training Alliances

Glin wrote: Pellinell wrote: Glin wrote: Merlinus wrote: I'd love to see clear evidence of your claim, Glin. Please? No. I will not publicly talk about it.  I do not subscribe to the belief that any single alliance is all good, above reproach, or even that anyone pne person here should demand my explanations. What next- you try to discredit me for not saying something you can dig into? These games are tiresome. Not all in this game are whom they try to portray themselves to be. Persons in T? are neither more nor less an example of that statement. You won't talk about it because it isn't true. I was in T? for 3 years and leadership for over 2. Never did T? ever break their neutrality stance. So you are either misinformed or a liar.  Just because I disagree with this statement     actively neutral, we make it a priority that our members stay out of all disputes, politics and skirmishes. ] does not make me a liar. Stop with the name calling. There is no need for that.

Captain Kindly wrote: This is something that has been on my mind for a while. For Credit, I have been involved with leading a few training alliances for EE. In that capacity, I have had contacts with leaders of other training alliances. I even managed to get a training alliance compact for mutual defense during the Consone war. LL launched it, but the initiative was mine. Illy has changed since then. There are no longer training alliances aiming at sending recruits to the mother alliance, and I think even H? can no longer protect T? I do not think that Alliances calling themselves 'Training Alliances' should have a special protection place because they call themselves that. All alliances take in new people and train them. Nor do I think that other alliances should rush in to help 'because they call themselves a training alliance'. As I said, Illy has changed. And every alliance can do confeds and naps. The Shield of calling yourself a Training Alliance is gone. I am pretty sure many players know this already. This coming from a HUGger should say something.

In my opinion, for what it's worth, training alliances continue to be a good thing because it is not just the mechanics of the game that need to be understood. A new player, unfamiliar with Illyria's conventions of social conformity, especially players who are mostly familiar with other RTS games greatly benefit from a short stay in a training alliance.

One may argue that participating in GC for a few days would make any new player aware of Illy's conventions but I think it falls far short of the actual need. For example, there is the etiquette of hunting and harvesting (kills, mines, herbs, etc.), the 10 square (or whatever) rule, how to determine an inactive account is ripe for thieving, or when it's safe for sieging and other behaviors with Illy-centric protocols that have become virtually rote for players with veteran level accounts.

I suppose all of this could be learned from GC and/or the Illyriad Forum but both of these are less than fun to wade through for most players and picking and choosing truly beneficial advice can be difficult at best. Joining an established (not training) alliance would, in most cases effectively bypass any need for a training alliance, unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately it is not such an easy task to find that one perfect fit alliance so soon in ones Illy career. For players new to this world, it is just better to put off the long term decision and join a training alliance to get the basics.

I think those training alliances that are attached to one particular alliance, that bring in new players, train them and then move them into the parent alliance already have an inherent protection. They are not in need of protection from the community at large and the rest of this reply does not pertain to them.

While it is true that any alliance can form a NAP or a Confederation, unlike other alliances, training alliances generally have somewhat unconventional reasons to do so. For example, sometimes it may be helpful to have them in place during training, or conversely, it may be best to remove them for the very same reason. For an active training alliance, these diplomatic relations often serve very different purposes than for the average alliance and they cannot be relied on as a substitute for the protection of the community.

If a training alliance is breaking unwritten rules by providing material support to alliances at war, or worse, harboring players rebuilding for the next attack, it can be extremely difficult to prove. I would argue that the presumed protection of the community is somewhat similar to the tenet of "presumed innocence." In the U.S., it's a given that the burden of proof is on the prosecution. It can be infuriating and certainly the guilty are set free all the time, but the alternative is horrendous. Innocent people locked away for other's crimes is why that burden must remain on the prosecution. In Illyriad, the protection of training alliances must remain the norm simply because of the alternative.

Now, questions have been raised about whether or not the training staff should be protected as well. I feel that's a more nebulous issue given they are generally vets themselves and most likely have vet friends (or, in some cases alternate accounts) who are members of or even leaders of established alliances. Even if there are no "official" diplomatic relations in place, the staff are likely to have connections they can rely on to muster support in the event they come under attack. This is all rather moot, however as it is highly unlikely that a staff member would come under attack, in an isolated way, with the community ignoring it. The obvious exception is if they are behaving in a way that warrants the attack. Again, I believe the burden of proof must fall upon the "prosecutor". For example, if a pattern can be established and the staff member is shown as an habitual offender, and the training alliance is legitimate, the solution should be self evident.

The protection of training alliances is of benefit to all, regardless of affiliations. The difference between an established alliance that takes in new players and trains them and an alliance that calls itself a training alliance (excepting those that are attached to a parent alliance) is the impermanence. The members of the training alliance are expected to move on to make room for new members and the cycle continues. Training alliances are forever full of newbs. It is just bad form to attack a training alliance, for any reason and we all know it.

Glin wrote: Merlinus wrote: I'd love to see clear evidence of your claim, Glin. Please? No. I will not publicly talk about it.  I do not subscribe to the belief that any single alliance is all good, above reproach, or even that anyone pne person here should demand my explanations. What next- you try to discredit me for not saying something you can dig into? These games are tiresome. Not all in this game are whom they try to portray themselves to be. Persons in T? are neither more nor less an example of that statement.

I'd love to see clear evidence of your claim, Glin. Please?

I began this game on the same day that, after some really wise counsel, I applied to, and was accepted by Toothless?. 

In my first week as a member, I was nearly (and only due to the generosity of the then-Chancellor was I not) kicked out of that Alliance because I posted a non-neutral position in the Forums. One. Not two. I was on probation for a long time because of that unintentional error, but I learned that when my TRAINING Alliance said neutral, no matter what--they fully meant it. It was my dream then that, upon graduation, I would be chosen to remain within T? as a member of faculty because that is what I greatly wished to do. I had reached both the town and population limits for general membership in that Alliance, and was told by a new Chancellor that I was not being asked to remain; that I must graduate from T?. 

I had never even thought of being in another Alliance, training or other, and I had some serious work to do...quickly. As I had done on my first day, I now again went to players of this game I had come to respect and admire, specifically because of my Training Alliance, the friends I made (and keep) there, the amazing things I learned there, and the now ingrained notions of hard work, patience, kindness, benevolence toward others, and the requirement to live up to the code of Honor that T? requires from every member.