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Topic ClosedTerrain testing results

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Mandarins31 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 07:13
To fluffy:

we cant find the %age of bonus by sending 2 armies of the same type because they will be affected by the same bonus. and much, if the 2 armies have different powers (like in 100 spears vs 100 spears), there is the problem that the bigger the army is, the les casualties it suffers (if an army have a power of 100 and the other a power of 200, to make it simple, the army with 200 power wont lose 100 but less than 100 power).

But if we do a battle with the same type of units and the same strenght, we could know if a same unit has the same bonus to its attack and to its defence on this square...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 06:21
There was a change a few months back such that high leveled commanders only had as much attack strength as the sum of the attack strength of the troops in the army regardless of their heroism level.

E.g. for a fully leveled knight commander you need 60+ knights in the army to get the commanders full attack strength.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 06:19
wouldn't the easiest way to see about defensive terrain bonuses be to attack and defend with the same type and number of troops?  like 100 spears vs 100 spears?  I don't know if that would help though
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 05:46

Are you sure you are applying the appropriate methodology for testing this ? I have never inquired about the exact mechanics of battle (actual bonuses, damages dealt, hitpoints and numbers of casualties resulting), so I am by no means saying this with any "staff" authority, but merely from the perspective of a regular player (so I might be completely wrong).

I have at least on one occasion noticed something that appeared at least a bit strange : a group of high-heroism commanders (no vitality upgrade) with just one regular troop so you can send an army out (raw attack power of a couple hundred commander-type troops) could end up in the death of everything even if the enemy is a wimpy group of low-grade NPC animals, while adding just a few more regular units (which would not noticeably alter the total attack power) will result in just some casualties and army survival. 

One could conclude that the formula calculating casualties is a bit more complicate than straightforward army attack vs army defense in percentages, and hitpoints might also matter. Then, there's the matter of how many hitpoints do regular troops have (if any, and if it differs from troop to troop). And of course, could always expect to also see some randomness involved, which might throw off reverse-engineering attempts even further.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 03:52
Originally posted by KillerPoodle KillerPoodle wrote:





So, for example that could give values for a and b as follows:

1.0 and 1.869  or
0.8 and 1.49  (e.g. a 20% penalty to cav atk and a 50% bonus to bow defence) or
0.6 and 1.12
etc...

There are an infinite number of possible values from this one equation - we would need more results to start narrowing down the actual values.




for me the only way to know the %age is first of all to find a square on which one an unit is not affected... so +0% bonus on attack or defense : so we could have the (Power)*1.0 and find the %age value of the other units on this square.

i think about plains and swordmen, its easy to know the bonus of every units on it because swordmen are unaffected:

Hills also benefit ranged units and spearmen to a lesser extent, and still penalise cavalry, but also to a lesser extent.  Swordsmen are largely unaffected by hilly terrain.

Plains provide the opportunity for cavalry to shine - their ability to maneuver makes them the masters of open flat space.  Lightly armoured spearmen dislike the open terrain of plains, where they are easier targets for cavalry and archers.

Edit: swordmen largely unaffected on hill (they are affected on mountains). they dont talk about them on plains. we can strongly suppose that swordmen are totally unaffected on plains




It will be much difficult on hills, forests, and mountains because we dont have any reference: every unit seems to be affected by the type of these grounds




-Exemple on plains with the previous report (swordmen attack spearmen):

they both have a power of 1000 (for exemple)
a=%bonus on swordmen attck
b=%bonus on spearmen def

39-7= 32
32/39= 0.821

1000*b/1000*a=0.821

b/a=0.821

swordmen unaffected => a=1.0

b=0.821a
b=0.821 => 17.9% penalty on spearmen def Smile

(but because of the weight of the army, the luck etc... its better to say a penalty between -15% and -20%)






Edited by Mandarins31 - 29 Aug 2010 at 04:20
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KillerPoodle View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 03:37
" Lightly armoured spear units, however, prefer terrain where there's some cover available."

Maybe spears have a penalty on plains where there is no cover?

BTW - I think you can get a more accurate picture when small numbers of troops are involved by looking at the damage to the commander (84% in this case - so 16% remaining).


Edited by KillerPoodle - 29 Aug 2010 at 03:38
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 02:40
here infantry has a non negligable advantage on spearmen. they have 15-20% of survivors (7/39*100) while all the speamen are dead. so infantry has a medium advantage when attacking spearmen on plains.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 01:42
Two opposing forces clash against each other.

Cavalry comes into its own when able to strike hostile forces at will, and from unexpected directions - and nowhere is this more feasible than on open plains. Lightly armoured spear units, however, prefer terrain where there's some cover available.

Fighting defensively on open plains, cavalry draws strength from the ability to form and reform their lines of engagement depending on the direction of battle, and it is here where cavalry excels.

Attackers:Unit:Quantity:Casualties:Survivors:
Commander: AxerAxman1Damaged for 84, 16 health remains.
Troops:Axmen39327

Defenders:Unit:Quantity:Casualties:Survivors:
Commander: Sacrificial LambKobold Cohort1Damaged for 100, 0 health remains.
Troops:Kobold Cohorts89890

In this experiment, infantry went against spear men.  The attack value of the infantry equals the defense value of the spear men.  The battle happened on the plains.  These results are surprising to me.  If we assume there is a random element, then I'm thinking neither side had a bonus or penalty thus resulting in the 7 surviving axe men.  Either there is a random element and no modifiers, or no random element and just a minor penalty to the spear men?  I really thought the axe men would have a lot more survivors.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2010 at 23:52
Hi, you may consider that on the same square and for the same unit, def and attack bonus could be different.

for exemple if on lonely peaks bows have +50% def, maybe they dont have +50% attck but a diferent %age of bonus


Edited by Mandarins31 - 28 Aug 2010 at 23:53
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2010 at 17:20
you have to also figue on who is defending, defence has the bonus
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