Terrain bonus change

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   Based on the the current stat changes effects below I see a notable change in terrain bonuses making sense. A 48 hour heavy cav cluster grew by 392,000 squares, about 50%.

This was (possibly) meant to be balanced by training rate changes but it seems there was basically no gain for defensive troops in training rate vs cav because the cav start from a higher base. The net training rate change for a kobold vs a knight is lateral.

I could see a combo of cav dropping to 20% plains bonus and spears going to neutral. This would change the knight training ratio vs kobolds from 1.9 to 1.5. At a 27% change, this is a lot, and it is notable that cav clusters may not usually be big enough to really grow by 50%. Maybe 25% cav bonus vs neutral spear bonus.

I could also see a boost of heavy spear resistance to bows as the bow component of the one two plains meta punch definitely boomed.

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Analysis of current stat change

The marching/training speed updates are pretty major, and some believe the main effect is to boost the power of defence via the speed of offensive units. One thing that might be overlooked is that the bonuses worked off of different base stats.

Kobold vs Knight (some numbers rounded, based on Toki's chart)

The Orcs gained a big 15.6% training rate on their cav defence rate of 226 CavD per hour, going to 261, the absolute gain is 35

Knights with 292.5 atk/hr go up 11.6% to 326.5, with an absolute gain of 34

I think this kind of gives us the general answer to the question "did defence vs sieges get boosted?". The biggest effect of increased speed is better defence. The speeds of defensive units did go up by a whole lot over the two stat changes, which does affect how far out you can realistically coordinate. But the main effect of speed is growing the size of an effective defensive cluster.

How big did the clusters grow?

Assume 50% knights, 30% marshals, 20% deathpacks, 0% runes just to avoid adding math for a small difference, lol. The weighted average speed of the heavy cav cluster goes up by 3.2 from 13.5 to 16.7. Square them and divide to get a 1.53 change in the area they can cover in a given time. Big!

For infantry 40% stals, 20% axes, 20% man at arms, 20% fists. Axes added because they are heavy infantry in attack per upkeep. From 6.6 to 8.2, 1.6 faster gaining 1.54 in total area. Also big, and notably with training rate boosts on some higher base stats than cav for attack.

For a 48 hour forced march response time the effective core cav cluster size goes from 972 sq to 1,202 sq across. The infantry grows from 475 sq to 590 sq across. Pi*(r^2) gives me an infantry core cluster gain of 96,000 squares and for cavalry a gain of 392,000 squares.

To be sure, it is quite difficult to maintain a mostly pristine plains cluster, and I suspect infantry gained solidly on retrain rate. Overall I'd say the current change in stat lines supports the view that defence gained a lot, and cav plains clusters gained a lot, possibly because relative bonuses being pretty equal obscured that the base stats on speed and on the training of attack vs defence were quite different.

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Smopecakes Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Forum Warrior Joined: 14 Apr 2017 Status: Offline Points: 335	Post Options Post Reply Quote Smopecakes Report Post Thanks(1) Quote Reply Topic: Terrain bonus change Posted: 21 Jul 2025 at 01:06
	Based on the the current stat changes effects below I see a notable change in terrain bonuses making sense. A 48 hour heavy cav cluster grew by 392,000 squares, about 50%. This was (possibly) meant to be balanced by training rate changes but it seems there was basically no gain for defensive troops in training rate vs cav because the cav start from a higher base. The net training rate change for a kobold vs a knight is lateral. I could see a combo of cav dropping to 20% plains bonus and spears going to neutral. This would change the knight training ratio vs kobolds from 1.9 to 1.5. At a 27% change, this is a lot, and it is notable that cav clusters may not usually be big enough to really grow by 50%. Maybe 25% cav bonus vs neutral spear bonus. I could also see a boost of heavy spear resistance to bows as the bow component of the one two plains meta punch definitely boomed. ----------------------------- Analysis of current stat change The marching/training speed updates are pretty major, and some believe the main effect is to boost the power of defence via the speed of offensive units. One thing that might be overlooked is that the bonuses worked off of different base stats. Kobold vs Knight (some numbers rounded, based on Toki's chart) The Orcs gained a big 15.6% training rate on their cav defence rate of 226 CavD per hour, going to 261, the absolute gain is 35 Knights with 292.5 atk/hr go up 11.6% to 326.5, with an absolute gain of 34 I think this kind of gives us the general answer to the question "did defence vs sieges get boosted?". The biggest effect of increased speed is better defence. The speeds of defensive units did go up by a whole lot over the two stat changes, which does affect how far out you can realistically coordinate. But the main effect of speed is growing the size of an effective defensive cluster. How big did the clusters grow? Assume 50% knights, 30% marshals, 20% deathpacks, 0% runes just to avoid adding math for a small difference, lol. The weighted average speed of the heavy cav cluster goes up by 3.2 from 13.5 to 16.7. Square them and divide to get a 1.53 change in the area they can cover in a given time. Big! For infantry 40% stals, 20% axes, 20% man at arms, 20% fists. Axes added because they are heavy infantry in attack per upkeep. From 6.6 to 8.2, 1.6 faster gaining 1.54 in total area. Also big, and notably with training rate boosts on some higher base stats than cav for attack. For a 48 hour forced march response time the effective core cav cluster size goes from 972 sq to 1,202 sq across. The infantry grows from 475 sq to 590 sq across. Pi*(r^2) gives me an infantry core cluster gain of 96,000 squares and for cavalry a gain of 392,000 squares. To be sure, it is quite difficult to maintain a mostly pristine plains cluster, and I suspect infantry gained solidly on retrain rate. Overall I'd say the current change in stat lines supports the view that defence gained a lot, and cav plains clusters gained a lot, possibly because relative bonuses being pretty equal obscured that the base stats on speed and on the training of attack vs defence were quite different.

Smopecakes Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Forum Warrior Joined: 14 Apr 2017 Status: Offline Points: 335	Post Options Post Reply Quote Smopecakes Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jul 2025 at 21:10
	Notable adjustment, the total cav cluster size is affected by how much of an area is plains. Looks about 40% in Elgea. The effective cav cluster still grows by the 50% but the 392,000 figure * 40% is 156,000. I'd say it's still a huge effect, but rather than 4x the infantry cluster growth it's more like 2x. Interestingly the BL looks about 30% plains but is also very mixed. There isn't really a spot in the BL that I can see where there's enough plains for the cluster growth to connect - the Westmarch plains, the northeast desert and the south tundra aren't close enough. I don't think the speed specifically affects the BL plains clusters.