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Surrender terms for wars in Illyriad

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Sir A View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sir A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2014 at 18:14
Originally posted by Angrim Angrim wrote:

Originally posted by Sir A Sir A wrote:

the fact that some alliances are choosing to fight until their total destruction means that they don't care what the terms are.  Its just annoying that some of them choose to cry in GC about their cities getting wrecked when they chose to fight to the end.  You would think someone who chooses to fight to the end has come to terms with what that means but I guess not everyone has.
again, this false dilemma. am i the only one who remembers Hathaldir suing for peace without surrender? there are middle states between war and surrender; they occur constantly irl, whether or not illy has ever made use of them. rejecting surrender terms is not the same as choosing extinction unless the victor wills it so.

Thats actually a really good idea Angrim, so create a peace treaty per say right?  The only problems I can see with that is that:

1. The winning side right now has no interest in doing that unless they were running out of gold/troops which is not really the case in this war. 

2. How long would a peace treaty last and even if both sides agreed to it would they honor it?

But other than that I think that is a great solution to ending the current war (at least for now).  It definitely is more logical than the winners giving the losers reparations :P.  

Originally posted by KillerPoodle KillerPoodle wrote:

Originally posted by Sir A Sir A wrote:

You would think someone who chooses to fight to the end has come to terms with what that means but I guess not everyone has.  So lets keep fighting and see what happens.  


The side that is winning has the choice - to cripple/destroy their opponent, or not.

The fact that you also chose to blame the ones who are being destroyed just compounds your lack of honor.

KP you really are the spinmaster, would you accept a medal titled "Spinmaster" if I made one for you?  I would be honored.  

Anyway the way I see it in war the objective is to destroy your enemy until they lose the will or ability to fight.  So far your allies have taken the majority of losses in this war since they were the main focus.  It does make of sad that TCol had to take so much damage since they were the main focus and one of the biggest military powerhouse alliances in the game.  They were pretty much the main reason NC has hardly lost any cities.  And instead of helping them they selfishly used them to buy themselves time.  And then after TCol finally surrendered after putting up an amazing fight Rorgash from NC thanked them by sending multiple sieges against them within hours after they surrendered.  So don't talk to me about honor pls.  

As far as blaming players that are being targeted; if you offer terms to an enemy and they reject those terms would you stop attacking them?  That would defy all logic and be really counterproductive.  So yes I blame the ones that are being targeted because they know the risks of being in a war when they entered the war.  And they also know that they can get out of the war at any time they choose and many individual players and 3 alliances have already done that.  But anyone that chooses to stay in the war are targets and should not expect their enemies to stop attacking them.  That is how war works and for me it really is as simple as that.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aurordan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2014 at 18:53
Originally posted by Deranzin Deranzin wrote:

Originally posted by Elmindra Elmindra wrote:

 
I know basic math is hard, but that war concluded almost a full year ago.  Last I saw, a year had 12 months instead of 1 or 2.  I personally did not lose as much as many of my alliance mates, but it was 6 months after the war before I was back up to near full strength.  Timeline of the two wars my left foot, if the above happened we would have been back at war in a month or two as Kp stated, not over 7 months later.


Indeed math seems hard ... let us check the facts then Tongue

Topic by Hathaldir: Eagles Eyrie surrenders to Harmless?
    Posted: 03 Apr 2013 at 12:25
Link : http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/eagles-eyrie-surrenders-to-harmless_topic4935.html

Next topic by Aral :Topic: Discussing the Current War
    Posted: 27 Oct 2013 at 02:24
Link : http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/discussing-the-current-war_topic5289.html

So this means that April - May- June you were back on your feet, so the timeline/prediction of setting "alliances back by a month or two at most" is accurate.
July - August - September you had returned to full battle readiness (troops do take time to build in this game) and were confident to wage war again.

Am I counting something wrong .?. And since when 6 months is a year .?.  Wink

Not only is the actual estimate, seven months, right there in the very section you quoted, It was also previously state that this was without heavy prestige use or stored basics, which Elmindra may well have had.  Anecdotal evidence of one players recovery is cannot be generalized.  

The terms levied against EE where by any measure among the most brutal in the game's history.  That you think making them harsher would have helped you now is a testament to Harmless? hubris and arrogance.  

  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deranzin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2014 at 19:14
Originally posted by Aurordan Aurordan wrote:

 
The terms levied against EE where by any measure among the most brutal in the game's history.  That you think making them harsher would have helped you now is a testament to Harmless? hubris and arrogance.



As in GC, it would appear that here as well where the speed of the dialogue is slower you fail to understand texts ... can you point WHERE I SAID THAT .?.

And as in GC you cannot, because I did not say such a thing ... LOL

All I did is point out that KillerPuddle's estimation of setting an alliance for a couple of months back was accurate, else the new war would not have started so fast/soon (6 months) right after the previous one and the intervening tournament.  Had the war stopped and no terms where given, you would have needed 3-4 months to get to full battle readiness anyway due to the time troops take to be built. As it is with the terms of the war it took you 3-4 months PLUS a couple of months. These are the facts and the topics I quoted prove it to be so ...

Apart from that, I am not privy to the terms given to EE, so I couldn't have claimed what you accuse me of doing anyway ... Tongue

Better luck next time with the mud-flinging Clap

EDIT:
That is all from me ... btw do finally stop that horrible practice of branding and judging whole alliances from individual members' opinions ... if you wanna be over-reacting to everything people say fine by me, but you have to understand that it is getting a bit ridiculous ...  Tongue


Edited by Deranzin - 19 Feb 2014 at 19:19
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Aurordan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aurordan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2014 at 19:54
That second paragraph was a response to statements by your Director in this very thread.  Not everything is about you.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deranzin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2014 at 20:42
Originally posted by Aurordan Aurordan wrote:

That second paragraph was a response to statements by your Director in this very thread.  Not everything is about you.  


Then quote that part or at least refer to that poster ... if you quote only me, then how is someone reading your post supposed to understand what you have in your mind and who you are talking to .?. Tongue
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Qaal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2014 at 22:40
Originally posted by Deranzin Deranzin wrote:

 
All I did is point out that KillerPuddle's estimation...

Unintentional I know, but, my god that's funny. KillerPuddle is totally my next username.

Thanks for the moment!
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Aurordan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aurordan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2014 at 22:42
Well, because it clearly relates to what he said, and as you so astutely pointed out, with lots of headache-inducing font changes and emotes, you weren't discussing that particular issue?    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2014 at 22:51
I thought it was deliberate, Qaal, like an affectionate nickname.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Qaal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2014 at 01:35
Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

I thought it was deliberate, Qaal, like an affectionate nickname.
I can see you're right. I don't get out much these days...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BellusRex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2014 at 03:45
While we're discussing surrender terms, I'd like to point out we have never demanded cities from players because we didn't like their forum posts or something they said in GC was deemed trollish. If such was the case, we would have some very obvious demands as part of terms.

I don't believe the same can be said of other alliances
"War is the father of all things..."
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