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Vytek 
Greenhorn
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 44
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 Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 17:00 |
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Sov square costs are as follows. 100 gold 10 rp per level per square distance from city on the vertical and horizontal. so a level 5 sov square 1 square from your city is 500 gold and 50 rp p/hour. factor in the distance and a lvl 5 sov square 2 squares from your city is now 1000 gold 100 rp p/hour. So a sov square at lvl 1 say 8 square from your city is a base 800 gold 80 rp p/hour per lvl of sov.
The diagonal cost is a 1.41 multiplier: so a lvl 1 sov square directly on the diagonol from your city is 141 gold and 14 rp. Ergo: a lvl 5 sov square on the diagonal is 705 gold and 70 rp p/hour.
You do not get any resource bonus from a sov square unless a resource building is built upon it. Blank sov squares with no attendant buildings give you zero bonus's.
Edited by Vytek - 29 Aug 2010 at 17:09
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Akita
New Poster
Chief Economist
Joined: 23 Jun 2010
Location: Romania
Status: Offline
Points: 133
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Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 17:58 |
One unit of food extra is worth up to 4 gold, since that's the difference between a 0% tax rate and a 100% tax rate income.
Of course, the loss of other resource incomes makes it worth in practice much less than that, but in some cases, its practical worth is pretty close to the maximum theoretical 4 gold.
Population: 26985
That's how much food the largest city in the game right now is consuming per hour (or, at least, one of the largest anyway).
It's on a 5-food square, but has a city on a 7-food square directly to the East of it. Assuming the 10k base food production quote was accurate for a 5-farmstead city, without prestige, the most he could hope to get out of the city itself is little over 17k food, and that's with 0% tax rate. Even with the prestige bonus, that's still only around 19k food at 0% tax rate... or around 16k with prestige and the default 25% tax rate (giving him almost 27k gold/hour)... or barely over 9k with prestige at max tax rate (giving him roughly 108k gold/hour). There are also advantages to producing food "locally", namely the fact you don't need to constantly ferry it in, and you're not susceptible to production breaks in case the stockpiles run out after a micro-vacation.
For such a player city, the value of a 20-food dolmen would be roughly equivalent to 8000 gold/hour. You still break-even with it even if you claim it at 16 squares away.
Edited by Akita - 29 Aug 2010 at 18:14
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Vytek
Greenhorn
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 44
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Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 19:23 |
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Was not disputing anything. Just giving correct Sov square costs for claiming.
Though 8000 gold is 8000 T1 units ( or an equivalent gold amount divided by gold maint. cost of similar T1/T2 units ) and the loss of that many troops for defense/offense makes having a 20 food dolmen at 16 squares not worth it to me at least. A couple sov squares at 1 distance from a city can be maintained reasonably to me.
Having a 25k city you must run at 0%- 25% taxes and deplete units from other cities in order to maintain a reasonable defense looks to be unviable. Could be just me. Then I am an Orc and 100% taxes and the most units I can field is viable to me :).
Edited by Vytek - 29 Aug 2010 at 19:24
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KillerPoodle
Postmaster General
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1853
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Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 23:36 |
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Not enough people are close to a +15 food square for that argument to
hold water. Most of us are making do with the standard 5% bonus from a
normal square.
The numbers seem about right for larger cities (10K+) but the cost
benefit for normal squares is pretty poor for smaller players/cities.
I would support, for example, a sliding scale on the bonuses (or the gold cost) to make it cheaper for smaller cities to use sov or to make the bonuses bigger for smaller cities.
That way the larger guys keep what they have built already and aren't made overpowered but the smaller players/cities can also benefit.
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Jargas
New Poster
Joined: 28 Aug 2010
Location: N.E. America
Status: Offline
Points: 33
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Posted: 30 Aug 2010 at 05:25 |
 Vytek wrote:
Having a 25k city you must run at 0%- 25% taxes and deplete units from other cities in order to maintain a reasonable defense looks to be unviable. Could be just me. Then I am an Orc and 100% taxes and the most units I can field is viable to me :).
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wow, a Orc being articulate......amazing! Seriously though, this is my take on the matter as well. You either need to be a lot richer than I am to make sov's profitable, or you need to simply choose between farmer and warrior. I don't like the latter reasoning at all. I look forward to giving Sovereignty,  another try when I am a little bigger and more aware of what I'm doing. Regards, Jargas
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Jargas Bargnothaltros
Officer of Dark Blight
Resident of The Underdark
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lokifeyson
Forum Warrior
Joined: 29 Jul 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 211
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Posted: 30 Aug 2010 at 05:49 |
Akita wrote:
This also means larger players have an incentive to spread out rather than colonize right next to eachother (for easy defense), so combat becomes noticeably more strategic too.
All in all, proper sov usage is highly situational, and it wouldn't be any fun in the long run if you could just use a cookie-cutter build anywhere at random on the map, now would it ? |
so I was mostly correct then? lol 
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col0005
Forum Warrior
Joined: 20 Apr 2010
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 238
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Posted: 30 Aug 2010 at 06:03 |
I'm not argueing that some tiles shouldn't be noticably more valuable than others. However if your going to use the argument that valuable tiles will increase fighting and therefore improve gameplay it needs to be noted that at 5 tiles away no square is worth fighting for. The cost for distance factor should be greatly reduced otherwise players will need to make a conciouse decision to contest a tile and make a full committment to that contest due to the close proximity ofthe enemy city
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Jargas
New Poster
Joined: 28 Aug 2010
Location: N.E. America
Status: Offline
Points: 33
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Posted: 30 Aug 2010 at 06:27 |
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Well put col, I agree. I'm glad this is being discussed. I was playing around with it earlier and it seems way too expensive. Even for such a valuable idea.
Does it really seem reasonable to charge the distance fee, when the cost to claim sov's I-IV, as well as the increasing building I-IV costs?
Earlier I shrugged it off. Thinking it just me being new and not rich enough yet. Yet I still have doubts that it is worth it.
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Jargas Bargnothaltros
Officer of Dark Blight
Resident of The Underdark
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KarL Aegis
Forum Warrior
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 287
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Posted: 01 Sep 2010 at 02:49 |
It seems sovereignty is just an excuse to crush the peasants under massive taxes.
No mercy for the worthless peons you rule over! they don't deserve to buy food!
Wait... is sov making us into communists? Red Scare gogo.
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I am not amused.
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gigi
New Poster
Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 19
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Posted: 05 Sep 2010 at 17:00 |
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Sov is a waste unless you boost cow production. I boosted it 100% and cows come out every 3m 30 sec compared to 7m on a L20 common gr. Last 15% gave 19 sec improvement. First 15% gave 1m or so. So the more you boost the less you gain - a complete waste of res. It was costing me 5K per res to maintain from 8 tiles (max sov level was 3).
If you want to boost res, just built another farm city...
My conclusion is to boost only cows, better send the resources to another city and upgrade the same building as it is a one off cost compared to slow bleeding from sov...
Probably use it to boost unit production in time of war... Again it takes gold so it may block your army, too... Too jiggly for me thank you.
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Sovreignty Resources Just Not Worth It