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fortebraccio
New Poster
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 17
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Topic: Sovereignty Improvements Posted: 20 Jul 2011 at 19:15 |
fluffy wrote:
no no no, then I'd have even more useless points laying around! |
well I know there are some other sov features that need to be improved (delevelling , etc).. mine was only a suggestion, as research points are the major trouble at the moment in my cities, I can buy books of course or produce them.. if nobody has ever experienced res points trouble though, then I apologize
Edited by fortebraccio - 20 Jul 2011 at 19:16
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Albatross
Postmaster General
Joined: 11 May 2011
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Points: 1118
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Posted: 20 Jul 2011 at 17:45 |
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I guess that research skill would be "Typesetting: white space" (LOL)
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fluffy
Forum Warrior
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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Points: 335
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Posted: 20 Jul 2011 at 17:25 |
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no no no, then I'd have even more useless points laying around!
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fortebraccio
New Poster
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Italy
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Points: 17
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Posted: 20 Jul 2011 at 13:04 |
Greetings all It would be nice and more useful if books were produced with less research points instead of increasing their rate of production .
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GM Stormcrow
Moderator Group
GM
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Location: Illyria
Status: Offline
Points: 3820
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Posted: 11 May 2011 at 17:13 |
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Very useful post - noted internally, with action points forthcoming.
tyvm all - don't hesitate to keep the ideas/fixes flowing.
SC
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Createure
Postmaster General
Joined: 07 Apr 2010
Location: uk
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: 11 May 2011 at 17:01 |
bump - another bug or 2 have been added to the list.
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HonoredMule
Postmaster General
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Location: Canada
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Points: 1650
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Posted: 26 Apr 2011 at 14:33 |
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@Createure: There are still use-cases for having sovereign structures at a lower level than the claim itself. For example, an adjacent tile may have some sovereign structure for a non-natural resource, which is too costly at level 5. But being adjacent, the sovereignty cost for a lvl 5 claim is still well worth maximizing the defensive penalty against incursions.
Also, the point was never automation, but rather dealing with insane micromanagement of system areas that aren't even easy to watch let alone maintain progress.
Another point: I often wish that listed sovereign claim positions included relative coordinates. That's the meaningful (distinctive) information we pick up at a glance when using the world map.
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Mandarins31
Forum Warrior
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
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Points: 418
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Posted: 26 Apr 2011 at 08:47 |
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To make the deleveling more simple and avoid to have a low lvl sov tile with a high lvl sov structure, it could be based on the sov structure lvl.
means that if you have a lvl 5 Jousting Yard on a lvl 5 sov Tile, First of all you will need to demolish your Jousting yard lvl 5, for it to come back to lvl 4. You can unclaim sovereignty only if the lvl of your sov tile is higher than the lvl of the sov building on it.
i would say that would be better if you could unclaim your sovereignty in the same time that the sov structure is unbuilding. Then, if we can select the lvl of the building after it's demolition, and if we can select the lvl at which the sov tile must end after the unclaim, that would take the same time to unclaim with this system than with the actual system. Also, it would take the same time if someone is trying to ask sov on your tiles: first, the occupying force destroys the sov building by 1 lvl, then the sovereighty is unclaimed by 1 lvl. when this is done, sov building is destryed by 1 lvl again, etc... as far as it reaches 0.
But if we dont care about keeping the same time for unclaiming sov, then, no need of being able to chose the final lvl of the tile/building after a(n) unclaim/demolition. Then that's not automatic and you must manually demolish and unclaim sov building then sov tile for each lvl.
Or to do it more simple, we could imagine that when you want to unclaim a sovereignty, the building is automatically destroyed if it has the same lvl that the sov tile when the unclaim begins for each lvl.
Edited by Mandarins31 - 26 Apr 2011 at 08:50
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Createure
Postmaster General
Joined: 07 Apr 2010
Location: uk
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 11:45 |
HonoredMule wrote:
Although in general I very much agree with SC's policy that game mechanics should not be automated in nature, I strongly feel that sovereignty should automatically progress toward a "target level" when leveling up and especially down. |
I'm undecided on this one. I agree about target levels when levelling down (especially over the current system where the current target delevel is ALWAYS level 0), but I wonder if target levels when going up makes it just a bit too... easy.
HonoredMule wrote:
That's a heck of a lot better than the system as it is designed now, which is even far worse than Createure describes: One must level a claim down 2 levels just to have the option to bring it back up one, all for the sake of getting it down one. |
I forgot about this part. Yes it is quite frustrating having to go into this kind of micro-management.
HonoredMule wrote:
during the de-leveling process the sovereign structure may not level down but also has no effect at all. It would be far more equitable if the queue processor instead used the "target level changed by user with occupying forces" event to trigger de-leveling of both the structure (if necessary) and the claim, thus fixing the exploit but also allowing continued enjoyment of the structure at the new lower target level. |
Yeh I also forgot about the "no effect of structure during 'delevelling'". I think this effect is a result of the idea that an army that disputes a sov claim triggers the delevelling and hence it makes sense that you would get no benefit from the sov square during hostile take-overs. I still think that during self-initiated delevelling you should recieve the structure bonus at the current level of the claim (or structure once the 'structures don't automatically delevel' glitch is fixed). I wonder if there needs to be a distinction made between 'hostile intiated dispute/delevelling' and 'self-initiated delevelling' because at the moment I think there is maybe the same game mechanic for delevelling in both circumstances. Alternatively you could have hostile take-overs utilise the same mechanic as there currently is: - So a hostile player arrives on a sov square and initiates delevelling (the delevelling initiated is a delevel with target level 0) and in order to cancel the delevelling a player needs to remove (or wait 'til it has moved) the hostile army, place an army on the disputed square and reintiate the claim. - Then self initiated delevelling uses the SAME game mechanic as a hostile take over except there is no army required to start delevelling and the target level is set by the player. In order to stop delevelling the player needs to send an army to reinitiate the claim, otherwise the claim will drop to the target level and stabilise.
HonoredMule wrote:
Leveling the structure itself up or down for any reason other than having a structure level above the current or upcoming claim level would still be manual as now, or it could work in the "target building at x level" strain as well. It would be even cheaper in this case, as there isn't the need for occupying forces, meaning the event can be reliably triggered by the change as opposed to either the change or the arrival of forces necessary to enact the change.
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Personally I see no need to have 'target levels for sov structures'... I think sov structures should fairly evenly match city buildings in how they are levelled up/down, but I'll add the idea to the list above for discussion.
Edited by Createure - 24 Apr 2011 at 11:58
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HonoredMule
Postmaster General
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Location: Canada
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Points: 1650
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Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 04:55 |
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Although in general I very much agree with SC's policy that game mechanics should not be automated in nature, I strongly feel that sovereignty should automatically progress toward a "target level" when leveling up and especially down.
The sovereignty overview page isn't nearly so convenient or accessible as the town map, and there are no summary areas tracking progress on sovereignty claims or structures. They could be added, but that would ultimately only provide more clutter to the interface, bringing demerit to the system as a whole.
But setting sovereignty claims to automatically check against "target level" whenever some milestone is completed (previous claim/de-claim action or structure level change) provides the event queue with the necessary triggers for an easy-to-develop as well as convenient and functional improvement to sovereignty management. Upon reaching those events, the event processor can compare current level against target to decide whether to raise, lower, or stay, as well as fix the current exploit with structure levels by automatically de-leveling the structure if required by the new (or next) level.
That's a heck of a lot better than the system as it is designed now, which is even far worse than Createure describes: One must level a claim down 2 levels just to have the option to bring it back up one, all for the sake of getting it down one. Bringing some of my lvl 5 sovereign claims down to for was utter agony. And to add injury to insult, during the de-leveling process the sovereign structure may not level down but also has no effect at all. It would be far more equitable if the queue processor instead used the "target level changed by user with occupying forces" event to trigger de-leveling of both the structure (if necessary) and the claim, thus fixing the exploit but also allowing continued enjoyment of the structure at the new lower target level.
Leveling the structure itself up or down for any reason other than having a structure level above the current or upcoming claim level would still be manual as now, or it could work in the "target building at x level" strain as well. It would be even cheaper in this case, as there isn't the need for occupying forces, meaning the event can be reliably triggered by the change as opposed to either the change or the arrival of forces necessary to enact the change.
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