[SOUTH] - Code of Conduct Signatories

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   Also - Rill's dissembling on the whole code of conduct thing is interesting but deceptive. 

Fundamentally she doesn't want it because that would mean admitting that the alliance she's a big part of was wrong to wipe out so many players instead of showing honor/restraint and we've all seen the torturous paths Rill will take to avoid admitting fault - even when presented with evidence from crow leaders.

Edited by KillerPoodle - 19 Jul 2014 at 04:20

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KillerPoodle Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Postmaster General Joined: 23 Feb 2010 Status: Offline Points: 1853	Post Options Post Reply Quote KillerPoodle Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Jul 2014 at 04:20
	Also - Rill's dissembling on the whole code of conduct thing is interesting but deceptive. Fundamentally she doesn't want it because that would mean admitting that the alliance she's a big part of was wrong to wipe out so many players instead of showing honor/restraint and we've all seen the torturous paths Rill will take to avoid admitting fault - even when presented with evidence from crow leaders. Edited by KillerPoodle - 19 Jul 2014 at 04:20
	"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill

KillerPoodle Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Postmaster General Joined: 23 Feb 2010 Status: Offline Points: 1853	Post Options Post Reply Quote KillerPoodle Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Jul 2014 at 04:34
	P.S. While I'm here I might as well dispell another lie that Rill seems to insist on bleating to anyone she can: The fact that we paid no attention to your "peace overtures", Rill, is not because we were not willing to discuss peace with anyone - just that we we not willing to discuss it with you - for a host of reasons I'm sure you can figure out if you really try.
	"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill

Rill Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Postmaster General Player Council - Geographer Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 6903	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rill Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Jul 2014 at 05:24
	I have admitted fault publicly and apologized to people on a number of occasions. I am not quite sure what I am at fault for now that I am supposed to be admitting? I don't want to derail this thread -- perhaps you could post in another thread your list of grievances with me that I am supposed to be taking responsibility for. Or if you'd rather not do it on the forum, perhaps send me a mail. I am far from perfect, and if there are some things for which I need to make amends, please bring them to my attention. It is possible that one of my faults is not seeing my faults with your discerning eye. Feel free to be as direct and harsh as you feel is appropriate. If by acknowledging my faults I can begin to mend the harm that has been done, then I am ready to do so.

Rill Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Postmaster General Player Council - Geographer Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 6903	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rill Report Post Thanks(2) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Jul 2014 at 05:46
	I see the edit with regard to the wrong I have participated in is being part of an alliance that has destroyed many cities -- including in some cases all or nearly all cities belonging to individual players. Honestly, this is troubling to me. I have spoken out within my alliance and urged restraint. On an individual level, I have reached out to other players as well as alliance leaders to try to facilitate personal surrenders to prevent this from occurring. There are a lot of excuses that people might use with regard to this or that account being sat or something like that, but I still find it troubling. It is too easy to look from the outside about how other people conduct themselves and justify ones own actions (see Fundamental Attribution Error for more how this may affect one's thinking without really being aware of it). I don't know if that action was wrong, but I am not convinced it was right. I believe that sieging so many cities from individual players was at least in some cases an error. I said so at the time and I say so now. I recognize that many of my allies may be frustrated by me saying this. Perhaps I should have been more vocal about it earlier. One of the reasons that have not said anything sooner is that I am not confident in my judgment on these issues. I left Illyriad for a time when the war was started in part because I didn't think I had the wisdom to provide input on important issues -- like should there have been a war in the first place. Because I was not engaged in the war at the beginning, I have not felt that it was my place to condemn the tactics of those who were. I do continue to think that the overall cause for the war was probably just, but again I am deeply ambivalent. My main concern was that I was not sure a war would mend some of the harms that people saw as leading to the war. Unfortunately I think this has turned out to be true in many cases. I am not convinced that sieging all of a player's cities is a terrible wrong. Maybe I am blinded by the long war. But honestly, I have restarted an account recently, and building up new cities is lots of fun! So maybe losing cities is not always a huge, tragic thing. By the same token, I have not lost any cities in this war. So maybe I am not the right person to judge that. So, how about we let me find out? If you believe it would help expiate the harm you perceive as having been done to you, and in order to allow me to experience proper compassion for those who have been harmed in this way, I now offer Harmless? all my cities. The condition is this: That you take my cities and agree to end this war. That further you agree that the price for any wrongs done by me and my allies are paid in full. We in turn would agree that any perceived wrongs you have done to us are also paid. Let's start over with a clean slate. Let's move past the destruction of this war and into the future of Illyriad. Perhaps we might even be able to be friends again. I miss having you as friends.

Glin Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Wordsmith Joined: 06 Apr 2014 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 127	Post Options Post Reply Quote Glin Report Post Thanks(2) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Jul 2014 at 17:14
	As one player said- showing restraint is symbolic of the code of conduct an alliance stands behind. Thus, regardless of size of alliance, the code shall stand as a testament to the frugality of alliance intra relationships within Illy. In honest reasoning, one must ask however; is this argument really the only point of good diplomacy desired when war is raging? Are there not other diplomatic foibles which have left some alliances with a die&never surrender attitude? I do believe that rebuilding one's former enemies to a point where they can stand tall is not just a point of honor; but also a stabilizing factor in Illy. I also believe that once forcing individuals from an alliance is hard-fisted and creates deep threads of rage that later will re-bubble. Making anyone back into a corner then drop to their knees in acknowledgment of superior strength is humiliation and wrong. It is not a code for knights, but for dogs. My alliance will stand for strength in superiority of numbers, honor in diplomacy, leadership in strength, integrity in trading, bravery against hecklers, and most importantly- wisdom in dealings with aggressors. Now it stands to reason that not all shall stand with a leading alliance in their policies of diplomacy. This is why Naps and Confeds should be a closely guarded gift. As future overseer of BL I approve this message. Thank you for taking the time to read my post.

KillerPoodle Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Postmaster General Joined: 23 Feb 2010 Status: Offline Points: 1853	Post Options Post Reply Quote KillerPoodle Report Post Thanks(1) Quote Reply Posted: 20 Jul 2014 at 04:30
	Rill - an entire wall of public spin - I haven't even read but the first few lines as it's truly pointless to try to process your lies, deception and utter failure to comprehend. Also - please provide one iota of proof that you did anything other than try to protect your public reputation while your own alliance mates were wiping people out. Regardless - If you really want to give up your cities I suggest you donate them to the people your alliance destroyed.
	"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill

GM Rikoo Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Community & PR Manager Joined: 28 Mar 2014 Location: Mars Status: Offline Points: 1233	Post Options Post Reply Quote GM Rikoo Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 Jul 2014 at 04:38
	Let's not start throwing insults or the thread is locked. GM Rikoo
	Illyriad Community Manager / Public Relations / community@illyriad.co.uk

KillerPoodle Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Postmaster General Joined: 23 Feb 2010 Status: Offline Points: 1853	Post Options Post Reply Quote KillerPoodle Report Post Thanks(1) Quote Reply Posted: 20 Jul 2014 at 04:43
	Let me get this straight - someone can outright lie in a thread and that's fine, but pointing out that it's a lie is against the rules? I think those rules need a re-think.
	"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill

Diva Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Forum Warrior Joined: 20 Dec 2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 416	Post Options Post Reply Quote Diva Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 Jul 2014 at 05:21
	Oh I love hearing Velociryrx welcoming new players as he was... Short of a player in SOUTH sieging a new player out of SOUTH'S territory. Though I no longer have a part in the play of a few months ago. Perhaps that should have been taught to all of SOUTH. Yeah I'm still angry.. but I'll get over it eventually. Maybe it's not part of something IN this thread, but I read his opening. Edited by Diva - 20 Jul 2014 at 05:22
	"Um diva.... you are sort of acting like a .... diva...." - PhoenixFire

Kumomoto Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Postmaster General Joined: 19 Oct 2009 Status: Offline Points: 2224	Post Options Post Reply Quote Kumomoto Report Post Thanks(1) Quote Reply Posted: 20 Jul 2014 at 05:23
	The whole war is over, so no point in continuuing this thread...