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Sisren 
Forum Warrior
Joined: 03 Feb 2012
Location: PA, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 446
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 Posted: 20 Nov 2012 at 23:57 |
 Mogul wrote:
dunnoob wrote:
Mogul wrote:
Results for Consone I got are like thisNew towns: 371 Lost towns: 296 Joined towns: 251 Left towns: 592 Relocated towns: 85 |
Is that 592+296-371-251=266 towns lost? |
This was just some quick compare to see that comparing towns is not that good for war results as there are things with bigger impact on towns (like people quitting to play or changing alliances)
But I made more detailed compare on alliance level (it is between 22. Sep and today as I don't have closer towndata file to war start as that from 22. September)
WE is only alliance with less population and new TACO alliance has approximately same population as WE lost.
Raw list of those towns is here:
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2 points: The reloc of the Dark town was not to dodge a siege - that figure in the charts may give a false impression. TACO is made of players from WE and WET.
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Kumomoto
Postmaster General
Joined: 19 Oct 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2224
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Posted: 20 Nov 2012 at 23:18 |
Llyorn Of Jaensch wrote:
Alti (SkB) wrote:
<div style="overflow: ; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; ">Illygeddon |
Hur.
Regards thread. Rehashing old arguments. There is nothing new to be said so lets avoid pointless repetition shall we.
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What was that? ;)
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Llyorn Of Jaensch
Postmaster
Joined: 31 Mar 2010
Location: Sydney
Status: Offline
Points: 924
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Posted: 20 Nov 2012 at 22:40 |
Alti (SkB) wrote:
Illygeddon |
Hur. Regards thread. Rehashing old arguments. There is nothing new to be said so lets avoid pointless repetition shall we.
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"ouch...best of luck."
HonoredMule
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Deranzin
Postmaster
Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 845
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Posted: 20 Nov 2012 at 21:26 |
Mogul wrote:
dunnoob wrote:
Mogul wrote:
Results for Consone I got are like thisNew towns: 371 Lost towns: 296 Joined towns: 251 Left towns: 592 Relocated towns: 85 |
Is that 592+296-371-251=266 towns lost? |
This was just some quick compare to see that comparing towns is not that good for war results as there are things with bigger impact on towns (like people quitting to play or changing alliances)
But I made more detailed compare on alliance level (it is between 22. Sep and today as I don't have closer towndata file to war start as that from 22. September)
WE is only alliance with less population and new TACO alliance has approximately same population as WE lost.
Raw list of those towns is here:
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Excuse me, but you should check things in quality as well in quantity.
For example, H? relocated cities in regard with the war are certainly not 11 ... and I know that because you counted within it m city of Saermon Darmanthor which I relocated because I had placed it in a totally stupid place.
Also, even if it was war related, the relocation of such a small city is in fact without any military value :
"6. Saermon Darmanthor, Deranzin [H?] old pop was: 4910 (id = 175566)
New population ? 2592 ... not a place to hold any significant military before and after relocation, wouldn't you agree ?
The same goes for all alliance btw, with a quick look over the data ... for example you add as full cities settlements with 5 population ...
Well ... in light of all that I do not really know if all your hard work collecting all this data, is actually any use and have any meaningful "message" as to who is winning ...
My congratulations for your effort though :)
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The_Dude
Postmaster General
Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 2396
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Posted: 20 Nov 2012 at 21:06 |
Jasche wrote:
*** When we did, we encouraged World's End to release some Sov claims that were clearly aggressive in nature - to my knowledge this was done. ****
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Yet another factually inaccurate statement. After declaring war, RES counter-claimed the offending WE sovs. WE counter-claimed back, and RES countered that. I doubt these matters are concluded.
In August, I presented to Jasche complaints regarding WE. Jasche told me then that it was not a Consone matter. WE dispatched its Consone Diplomat, The Duke, to discuss matters with me. I presented to him RES's desires. Duke told me he believed that RES/WE could come to terms. 2 days later Duke quit WE and WE sent no new emissary to RES to carry on discussions. (A common WE ploy over the last year is to withdraw their diplomat and send no replacement.)
In October, I again approached Jasche. Again, Jasche told me that this was no concern to Consone. RMY contacted me but refused to discuss the complaints RES had regarding WE. WE then claimed more Sovs within 2 sqs of RES cities. Then WE seiged a RES city. RES destroyed the siege. After attempting discussions for another day with Jasche with no progress towards peace, I withdrew my peace offer. 8 days later, RES declared war on WE.
Jasche attempts to present a situation of change in circumstances, but there has been none. WE has attacked RES repeatedly for over a year now and Consone is protecting WE from retaliation. That is how Consone has acted from inception. Tigers don't change their spots.  |
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The_Dude
Postmaster General
Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 2396
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Posted: 20 Nov 2012 at 20:42 |
Mogul wrote:
dunnoob wrote:
Mogul wrote:
Results for Consone I got are like thisNew towns: 371 Lost towns: 296 Joined towns: 251 Left towns: 592 Relocated towns: 85 |
Is that 592+296-371-251=266 towns lost? |
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Took me moment to interpret your table.
RES has not "lost" any cities to war. RES has had several inactive accounts deleted by the system during the last month.
Nor has any member "left" RES. RES kicked a member and his alt due to his unwillingness to abide by the policies of RES and I think that should be 10 cities, not 7.
RES has done no Relocations as a result of the war - any Exo's have been the result of player planning and preparation in the normal course of development.
Also, your use of Sept 22 as a start date is improper. The war started after Oct 1 for all participants and RES declared war on WE on Oct 24.
But overall, a nice presentation even with some "distortions" due to the "rawness" of the data.
Edited by The_Dude - 20 Nov 2012 at 21:07
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Alti (SkB)
New Poster
Joined: 20 Oct 2012
Location: Tor Carrock
Status: Offline
Points: 17
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Posted: 20 Nov 2012 at 19:09 |
hellion19 wrote:
Also VIC was involved before most of the other alliances were involved. If you want to try and rewrite what happened its ideal to at least wait till the proof is off the front page of the forums. VIC came barging in after ABSA barged in the first time and realized they bit off more than they can choose. This was after ABSA jumped in to help someone not even part of Consone (SkB) and managed to throw the entire weight of Consone to ultimately enforce something that was not even a Consone problem initially.
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The above is true enough, but I think it misses a fairly important point. VIC and Absa have been in confed since 2010 and, from what I gather, their mutual loyalty goes well beyond their commitment under Consone - certainly the VIC-Absa confed was a big discussion point when we (SkB) were discussing our confed with Absa. I think VIC were obliged to help Absa independently of any action Consone took, but it is quite reasonable for The Coalition (henceforth C?) to have seen this as Consone having taken an interest, hence their decision to declare war. With the benefit of hindsight, it might have been good if Jasche had clarified the VIC obligations vs Consone obligations thing before sending troops in (troops which were not sent with any haste). We (SkB) had ourselves been confused about what it meant to be in a confed with a Consone member (Absa). The impact of ignorance on decision making has been underemphasised in the various "why we fight and why we're right" messages I've seen. I think most of the talk of high principles going on (from C? members, from fully paid-up Consone members, and something similar from non-combatants) is self-serving. I see one part principle to two parts mess, all liberally seasoned with retrospective justification. I am beginning to get annoyed by overly neat generalisations about the war. FWIW, my opinion on who is winning: while C? are razing many more cities than they are suffering razes, they are winning. But there is little visible momentum behind them and I think time is on Consone's side. I have the impression that C?'s military leadership has been underperforming, so far, but I don't predict who will have the top hand. I do predict that one outcome of the war will be that the Crowalition gets relatively stronger and more cautious, so we are unlikely to suffer Illygeddon, no matter how things work out.
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Mogul
Forum Warrior
Joined: 23 Sep 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 233
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Posted: 20 Nov 2012 at 17:47 |
dunnoob wrote:
Mogul wrote:
Results for Consone I got are like thisNew towns: 371 Lost towns: 296 Joined towns: 251 Left towns: 592 Relocated towns: 85 |
Is that 592+296-371-251=266 towns lost? |
This was just some quick compare to see that comparing towns is not that good for war results as there are things with bigger impact on towns (like people quitting to play or changing alliances)
But I made more detailed compare on alliance level (it is between 22. Sep and today as I don't have closer towndata file to war start as that from 22. September)
WE is only alliance with less population and new TACO alliance has approximately same population as WE lost.
Raw list of those towns is here:
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Kumomoto
Postmaster General
Joined: 19 Oct 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2224
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Posted: 20 Nov 2012 at 17:07 |
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abstractdream
Postmaster General
Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Location: Oarnamly
Status: Offline
Points: 1857
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Posted: 20 Nov 2012 at 15:47 |
Kumomoto wrote:
Jasche wrote:
Kumo, that's interesting. You are claiming the rational highground? |
Of course! Rational and moral high ground! ;)
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...and actual.
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Bonfyr Verboo
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So who's winning and is it really Illy armageddon?
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