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GM Stormcrow View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 08:29
Thread moved to the Suggestions & Enhancements Subforum
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joekewl View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 12:50
I have seen quite a few different implementations of account sitting. Its not sharing. Its a limited access that allows for someone to ensure you are still building, not getting creamed by attackers, etc. You usually cant launch attacks or any aggressive actions and there is often a time limit that you are "allowed" to be sitting so that it doesnt become a 2nd account. Oh, and you also cant spend prestige points.

As SC suggested, Usually this is a setting in your profile where you add a username as a sitter then they log in using your username and their password.

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Corual View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 23:50
yea, I could see this working if done correctly. Giving the player full control of having a second "sitter" password and being able to customize some limitations on the account (some options would need to be hard, like attacking/diplomacy/prestige etc) would be a good replacement of the "Holiday" option. Having the ability to control the access of the sitter would eliminate the politics of the relationship between the two players going sour. The time limit is a great idea in preventing account abuses.
Since an offense can sometimes be a good defense strategy, I think that when someone is in the "sitter" status, their cities should not be attackable. If one can't move troops to defend their other cities, it could be a big vulnerability. If one COULD move troops, wouldn't it be a mess in programming in making sure the troop movements would be legal targets (cities needing defense) given the parameters (no attacking) of the "sitter" status?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2010 at 00:59
Let me throw my hat into the ring as well.  I would like to see a non-restrictive system for supporting account sitting.  Perhaps even two levels of access-sharing:  one that protects the account from abuse, allowing only limited activity such as building units and buildings, and trading between account cities, and another for more trusted members that allows pretty much anything except spending prestige or buying more.

I've seen other systems set up such that while an account is set as being babysat, the actual account owner can see and do nothing.  This doesn't sit right with me.  I believe the account owner should always be able to monitor what's happening, and revoke access early if he sees something that gives him cause for concern.  This further justifies allowing a player the level of access he actually needs to account-sit effectively in any situation.  To prevent abuse (presuming one considers dual attention on a single account to qualify as such), there could simply be a long cooldown (like 24 hours) on re-enabling account sitting by the same player.

I do not feel strongly on the issue, but my sentiment does lean toward the belief that, if you trust someone to share your account fully with them (i.e. not account sitting but outright sharing of account credentials on a long-term basis), that's your business and your risk (assuming all involved parties do not have permanent access to more individual accounts than they are allowed to own outright).  What such "co-conspirators" gain in increased online activity, they lose in ability to grow and spread using separate accounts.  In my mind, the situation is still balanced and fair.

I doubt many would be like-minded enough to execute such a strategy very effectively anyway, but if you can, good for you.  For me the guiding principle behind these decisions is thus:  I always hate game rules that criminalize ingenuity or talent in any form, technical or social.  If you can pull it off and it doesn't cause actual problems (like bypassing the developers' profit-earning mechanisms, causing undue strain on servers, intentionally exploiting loopholes in game mechanics or security measures, etc.) it should be allowed.  After all, if one person can do it, so can another.  Talent as a differentiating factor is the basis of competition.  It's like counting cards--it's not wrong because it's abuse or cheating in a meaningful sense;  it's only wrong because the house loses the advantage...which is practically the player's objective in a nutshell.  So effectively, it's "wrong" to win.  But this game doesn't play against "the house," so there's no need for such arbitrary limitation on what intelligent player behavior constitutes fair play.


Edited by HonoredMule - 25 Mar 2010 at 01:05
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GM Stormcrow View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2010 at 13:58
Very useful thread, thank you all.

What I'm looking at now is:

1. Implement an Account Sitting system

2. Players will be able to nominate up to 2 players to sit their account with 2 levels of sitting permission, "basic" and "advanced"

2a. "Basic" permission will permit production orders, building orders & research orders, but little else, including access to email
2b. "Advanced" permission will permit full access to everything that player can do, except for i) prestige functions, ii) adding or editing the player's profile details (which will include who the sitters are and the player's password), and iii) entering "holiday" mode.  I'm not sure about adding a iv) alliance management functions and would welcome some thoughts on this.

3. Account sitters login to the sittee's account using the sittee's playername and the sitter's account password ('sittee' isn't a word, but I can't think of anything better atm Smile)

4. Account sittees will be able to login to their account if a sitter is in the account, and make their own orders + revoke the sitter's access permissions

5. Account sharing via username and password transfer will be strictly prohibited, and anyone silly enough to hand out their username and password is on their ownsome

Does this work for everyone?

Corual, what I think you're mostly talking about would be covered in an entirely separate "Holiday" mode - when we implement such a scheme.  I don't think we should conflate "account sitting" and "player holidays" as part of the same concept as this is largely unfair to "lone wolf" players of which there are still some out there.
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Corual View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 00:04
Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:


Corual, what I think you're mostly talking about would be covered in an entirely separate "Holiday" mode - when we implement such a scheme.  I don't think we should conflate "account sitting" and "player holidays" as part of the same concept as this is largely unfair to "lone wolf" players of which there are still some out there.
 
Very good point, i agree. I think everything you posted would work great. it allows a good amount of flexibility to accomodate the real-time aspect of the game vs. account security issues. I like this idea a lot. Glad we could help SC, and much appreciation for being so attentive to the players!! :D
 
Also, about the alliance portion, I admit, I've been kind of inactive in alliance affairs so I don't think I would be able to provide very meaningful ideas at this point.


Edited by Corual - 27 Mar 2010 at 00:09
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Candls View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2010 at 22:59
Points 1,3,4 and 5 completely agree.
 
Points 2a and b;
 
I agree with the 3 exceptions in 2b, but as for basic and advanced how about a menu of functions to be authorised for the 'sitter'? That way each player can decide for themsevles what permissions to give.
 
Finally what would the 'player holiday' option look like?
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HonoredMule View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2010 at 05:56
Will there be any restriction on the duration or quantity of account sitting that can occur, or will people be allowed to essentially use account sitting to watch each other's backs regularly or maintain account activity at all hours (by collaborating with players from different timezones)?

I'm not opposed to unrestricted use beyond planned events, but--as member of a diverse alliance of highly honorable members--my position is a little biased.  The idea of regularly having extra "executive" attention on my account is a favorable one.
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GM Stormcrow View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2010 at 11:07
Originally posted by HonoredMule HonoredMule wrote:

Will there be any restriction on the duration or quantity of account sitting that can occur, or will people be allowed to essentially use account sitting to watch each other's backs regularly or maintain account activity at all hours (by collaborating with players from different timezones)?

I'm not opposed to unrestricted use beyond planned events, but--as member of a diverse alliance of highly honorable members--my position is a little biased.  The idea of regularly having extra "executive" attention on my account is a favorable one.

We're not considering restrictions on sitting hours, no.

Originally posted by Candls Candls wrote:

I agree with the 3 exceptions in 2b, but as for basic and advanced how about a menu of functions to be authorised for the 'sitter'? That way each player can decide for themsevles what permissions to give.

Maybe - though this might just complicate things a bit too much for players.  We're all in favour of simplicity wherever possible, so if we can predefine the categories it might work out better for everyone!

Originally posted by Candls Candls wrote:


Finally what would the 'player holiday' option look like?

Current thinking is:
  • You can choose to take a Player Holiday of up to 14 days at a time
  • This will cost Prestige to put in place
  • Your troops abroad (Occupying, reinforcing) will remain where they are and be fully interactive from other players, and your trade offers/orders will fill as usual
  • You Cities will be invulnerable (as New Player Protection) to new attacks
  • You cannot declare a Player Holiday if you have any current outbound hostile actions against another player, or hostile actions in effect (Blockade, Siege)
  • Player Holidays will not make any difference to any current, inbound, hostile actions
  • During a declared Player Holiday, sitters will not be able to log in
  • If you log in to your account at any time before the player Holiday ends, the Holiday protection ends
  • There will be a player Holiday cooldown of X weeks/months before you can declare a Player Holiday again
The 2 questions we still need to work through are:
a) What's the cooldown period before you can declare another Player Holiday?  I'm in favour of around 2 months, personally.
b) Whether a city in Holiday mode continues to accrue resources, or whether we treat Holiday as a complete state of "suspended animation"

Any comments / thoughts / ideas welcome, as always.

Best wishes,

GM Stormcrow


Edited by GM Stormcrow - 04 Apr 2010 at 11:08
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Candls View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2010 at 12:05
I'm not sure if there should be any cool down period for a player holiday, if you go for the 'suspended animation' option and its going to cost prestige then I can't see why someone would take a player holiday unless they really needed to.
 
I can't see why this system could be abused and therefore why you would need to have a cool down period.
 
I agree with no restrictions on sitting, when HonouredMule pointed out that it could be used to gain activity hours I initially raised an eyebrow, but  now I think about it if Alliances want to expliot this then I'm all for it - at the end of the day the reason this is an online game is to allow interaction.  
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