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Candls
New Poster
Joined: 21 Mar 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 14
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Posted: 03 Apr 2010 at 22:59 |
Points 1,3,4 and 5 completely agree.
Points 2a and b;
I agree with the 3 exceptions in 2b, but as for basic and advanced how about a menu of functions to be authorised for the 'sitter'? That way each player can decide for themsevles what permissions to give.
Finally what would the 'player holiday' option look like?
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Corual
New Poster
Joined: 18 Mar 2010
Location: US
Status: Offline
Points: 26
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Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 00:04 |
GM Stormcrow wrote:
Corual, what I think you're mostly talking about would be covered in an entirely separate "Holiday" mode - when we implement such a scheme. I don't think we should conflate "account sitting" and "player holidays" as part of the same concept as this is largely unfair to "lone wolf" players of which there are still some out there.
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Very good point, i agree. I think everything you posted would work great. it allows a good amount of flexibility to accomodate the real-time aspect of the game vs. account security issues. I like this idea a lot. Glad we could help SC, and much appreciation for being so attentive to the players!! :D
Also, about the alliance portion, I admit, I've been kind of inactive in alliance affairs so I don't think I would be able to provide very meaningful ideas at this point.
Edited by Corual - 27 Mar 2010 at 00:09
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GM Stormcrow
Moderator Group
GM
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Location: Illyria
Status: Offline
Points: 3820
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Posted: 26 Mar 2010 at 13:58 |
Very useful thread, thank you all. What I'm looking at now is: 1. Implement an Account Sitting system 2. Players will be able to nominate up to 2 players to sit their account with 2 levels of sitting permission, "basic" and "advanced" 2a. "Basic" permission will permit production orders, building orders & research orders, but little else, including access to email 2b. "Advanced" permission will permit full access to everything that player can do, except for i) prestige functions, ii) adding or editing the player's profile details (which will include who the sitters are and the player's password), and iii) entering "holiday" mode. I'm not sure about adding a iv) alliance management functions and would welcome some thoughts on this.3. Account sitters login to the sittee's account using the sittee's playername and the sitter's account password ('sittee' isn't a word, but I can't think of anything better atm  ) 4. Account sittees will be able to login to their account if a sitter is in the account, and make their own orders + revoke the sitter's access permissions 5. Account sharing via username and password transfer will be strictly prohibited, and anyone silly enough to hand out their username and password is on their ownsome Does this work for everyone? Corual, what I think you're mostly talking about would be covered in an entirely separate "Holiday" mode - when we implement such a scheme. I don't think we should conflate "account sitting" and "player holidays" as part of the same concept as this is largely unfair to "lone wolf" players of which there are still some out there.
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HonoredMule
Postmaster General
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1650
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Posted: 25 Mar 2010 at 00:59 |
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Let me throw my hat into the ring as well. I would like to see a non-restrictive system for supporting account sitting. Perhaps even two levels of access-sharing: one that protects the account from abuse, allowing only limited activity such as building units and buildings, and trading between account cities, and another for more trusted members that allows pretty much anything except spending prestige or buying more.
I've seen other systems set up such that while an account is set as being babysat, the actual account owner can see and do nothing. This doesn't sit right with me. I believe the account owner should always be able to monitor what's happening, and revoke access early if he sees something that gives him cause for concern. This further justifies allowing a player the level of access he actually needs to account-sit effectively in any situation. To prevent abuse (presuming one considers dual attention on a single account to qualify as such), there could simply be a long cooldown (like 24 hours) on re-enabling account sitting by the same player.
I do not feel strongly on the issue, but my sentiment does lean toward the belief that, if you trust someone to share your account fully with them (i.e. not account sitting but outright sharing of account credentials on a long-term basis), that's your business and your risk (assuming all involved parties do not have permanent access to more individual accounts than they are allowed to own outright). What such "co-conspirators" gain in increased online activity, they lose in ability to grow and spread using separate accounts. In my mind, the situation is still balanced and fair.
I doubt many would be like-minded enough to execute such a strategy very effectively anyway, but if you can, good for you. For me the guiding principle behind these decisions is thus: I always hate game rules that criminalize ingenuity or talent in any form, technical or social. If you can pull it off and it doesn't cause actual problems (like bypassing the developers' profit-earning mechanisms, causing undue strain on servers, intentionally exploiting loopholes in game mechanics or security measures, etc.) it should be allowed. After all, if one person can do it, so can another. Talent as a differentiating factor is the basis of competition. It's like counting cards--it's not wrong because it's abuse or cheating in a meaningful sense; it's only wrong because the house loses the advantage...which is practically the player's objective in a nutshell. So effectively, it's "wrong" to win. But this game doesn't play against "the house," so there's no need for such arbitrary limitation on what intelligent player behavior constitutes fair play.
Edited by HonoredMule - 25 Mar 2010 at 01:05
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Corual
New Poster
Joined: 18 Mar 2010
Location: US
Status: Offline
Points: 26
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Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 23:50 |
yea, I could see this working if done correctly. Giving the player full control of having a second "sitter" password and being able to customize some limitations on the account (some options would need to be hard, like attacking/diplomacy/prestige etc) would be a good replacement of the "Holiday" option. Having the ability to control the access of the sitter would eliminate the politics of the relationship between the two players going sour. The time limit is a great idea in preventing account abuses.
Since an offense can sometimes be a good defense strategy, I think that when someone is in the "sitter" status, their cities should not be attackable. If one can't move troops to defend their other cities, it could be a big vulnerability. If one COULD move troops, wouldn't it be a mess in programming in making sure the troop movements would be legal targets (cities needing defense) given the parameters (no attacking) of the "sitter" status?
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joekewl
Greenhorn
Joined: 08 Mar 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 68
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Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 12:50 |
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I have seen quite a few different implementations of account sitting. Its not sharing. Its a limited access that allows for someone to ensure you are still building, not getting creamed by attackers, etc. You usually cant launch attacks or any aggressive actions and there is often a time limit that you are "allowed" to be sitting so that it doesnt become a 2nd account. Oh, and you also cant spend prestige points.
As SC suggested, Usually this is a setting in your profile where you add a username as a sitter then they log in using your username and their password.
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GM Stormcrow
Moderator Group
GM
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Location: Illyria
Status: Offline
Points: 3820
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Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 08:29 |
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Thread moved to the Suggestions & Enhancements Subforum
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DAVX
New Poster
Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 5
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Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 08:15 |
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Ooops, sorry, I started my reply before SC posted his!
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DAVX
New Poster
Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 5
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Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 08:14 |
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I think that Corual is right - just allowing account sharing would have issues. And for myself, I would not be keen to simply share my account with another player anyway - it kind of reduces the sense that it is "me" playing the game.
But allowing account sitters could be different from simple account sharing - though this would of course require some work up front to implement (sorry SC!).
Suppose you allowed player A to specify another player (B) to be their "sitter". Then B would be able to log onto account A (perhaps using their own password, instead of the A's password), but would only have limited access - perhaps they would be able to kick of builds, trade, but not launch attacks. The level of access could be customised to fit the game.
That would have several benefits:
(1) If you cannot get online for some time then your account is at least being maintained (we all go on holiday, and the game is likely to last several months from start to finish). Otherwise it becomes a tempting target for raiding.
(2) Alliances can share sitting duties between players - it could enhance the sense of community and cooperation within the game. It would be good for the alliance (more efficient growth), rewarding alliances that are better at cooperating.
(3) It provides a legitimate method of coping with the "holiday" problem - if a player is really into the game, leaving their account inactive for a week or two is almost unthinkable - so there might be a temptation to share account details regardless.
I think that the benefit of having a sitter is not trivial - an extra build or two each day can really make a difference.
By the way, I am off on holiday myself tomorrow - though I am hoping to be able to log onto Illyriad with a laptop. This is why the issue occurred to me.
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GM Stormcrow
Moderator Group
GM
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Location: Illyria
Status: Offline
Points: 3820
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Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 07:59 |
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Good point - and we don't want to be caught in the middle of a dispute between two players who have shared passwords.
What do we think of the option of allowing players to appoint another player who can log in (with the other player's username but their own password) and have limited access to the appointing players' account (ie not buy or spend prestige etc)?
I'm just a little concerned that we won't get round to implementing the "Holiday" option for a few weeks yet, given our other workloads. Unless it's something that should be prioritised higher because it will become an increasingly demanded item?
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