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Myr 
Forum Warrior
Joined: 26 May 2011
Location: Orlando, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 437
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 Posted: 25 Jul 2012 at 21:29 |
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I thought they weren't going to attack anyone below 5k (I got that from chat last night), but I'm seeing here 15k. Can someone from Aesir please verify?
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Garth
Forum Warrior
Joined: 10 May 2012
Location: Somewhere, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 249
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Posted: 25 Jul 2012 at 19:53 |
 Fred Evil wrote:
Kumomoto wrote:
We are not involved in this in any way, shape, or form, but I did want to point something out.
Attacking small players who belong to an alliance you are at war with is Not, imo, newbie bashing. War is war. If your alliance goes to war, you all go to war. Large and small.
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This I understand and accept. However, in the initial announcement of the war, it was stated
"we are not here to hurt the weak and the unguilty"
Yet their first attacks fall upon precisely those described. If you are going to stake your claim in justice and righteousness, I suggest you stick to your word. Especially if you make such a statement AFTER having already assaulted the 'weak and unguilty.'
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The first casualties of war are often the most tragic. Surprise attacks, wide-net targeting and such. To have them be the "peaceful citizens" is even more a slap in the face.
Along Kumo's point, there's a slight distinction to be made: the dynamic that caused the rush to the defense of the smaller TLR members is the sense that they were ambushed and had done nothing to *deserve* being attacked. If the first targets had only been the larger TLR players, it's likely the agreement that arose (no non-combatant targets under 15K pop) would be different or non-existent. Otherwise I agree with you.
And Fred Evil, I'd say that there was already a process of sussing out what was going on, and your presence in GC helped speed along the advocacy efforts. I'll be interested to see how this all plays out..
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Fred Evil
New Poster
Joined: 25 Jul 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 12
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Posted: 25 Jul 2012 at 18:21 |
Kumomoto wrote:
We are not involved in this in any way, shape, or form, but I did want to point something out.
Attacking small players who belong to an alliance you are at war with is Not, imo, newbie bashing. War is war. If your alliance goes to war, you all go to war. Large and small.
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This I understand and accept. However, in the initial announcement of the war, it was stated
"we are not here to hurt the weak and the unguilty"
Yet their first attacks fall upon precisely those described. If you are going to stake your claim in justice and righteousness, I suggest you stick to your word. Especially if you make such a statement AFTER having already assaulted the 'weak and unguilty.'
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jtk310
New Poster
Joined: 05 Jun 2012
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 35
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Posted: 25 Jul 2012 at 17:55 |
Rill wrote:
jtk, it is my understanding that TLR has expressed a desire to locate in Ursor, but not a claim to all or even part of it. TLR has in fact specifically said it is not making such a claim. If TLR did make such a claim, I am guessing that many would oppose it, such as the large and varied number of alliances (including mine) that are already located there, some of which pre-exist TLR's claims.
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By perpetual claiming of the lands I meant building cities and claiming sovereignty there; claiming as in the "Lands Claimed" phrase in the signatures as opposed to claiming as in making a claim to. I see how that could easily be misconstrued, my apologies for any implications the second meaning may hold.
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Kumomoto
Postmaster General
Joined: 19 Oct 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2224
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Posted: 25 Jul 2012 at 17:47 |
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We are not involved in this in any way, shape, or form, but I did want to point something out.
Attacking small players who belong to an alliance you are at war with is Not, imo, newbie bashing. War is war. If your alliance goes to war, you all go to war. Large and small. If the small guys don't want to be hit, then don't go to war. Or leave the alliance. Attacking small players in an enemy alliance may not be sound strategy or wise from a PR perspective, but, imo, it is not something that I would expect the community to get up in arms about. It is not the same thing as picking on unaligned newbies. Which is really the only thing that "Community" should be focused on, imo.
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Quackers
Forum Warrior
Joined: 19 Nov 2011
Location: Jeff City
Status: Offline
Points: 435
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Posted: 25 Jul 2012 at 17:44 |
Rill wrote:
jtk, it is my understanding that TLR has expressed a desire to locate in Ursor, but not a claim to all or even part of it. TLR has in fact specifically said it is not making such a claim. If TLR did make such a claim, I am guessing that many would oppose it, such as the large and varied number of alliances (including mine) that are already located there, some of which pre-exist TLR's claims.
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A little birdy told me "We in tlr are expanding our settlement area." Since I'm a duck I have alot of bird friends. Take that as you will Rill and I'll take it as it was written.
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Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business and to work with your hands, so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so you will not be dependent on anybody.
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Rill
Postmaster General
Player Council - Geographer
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6903
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Posted: 25 Jul 2012 at 17:37 |
Fred, just for the record, you had not (to my knowledge) yet begun your whining when I and other community members spoke our piece publicly and in messages to Aesir leadership expressing concerns about attacks on smaller players. The fact that you continued whining for hours afterwards ... that's on you. Probably good propaganda for TLR, and given that you were under attack, I won't fault you for it.
My understanding is that Aesir has said they won't attack players with less than 15k population unless they participate in the war. To have attacked small players in the first place was a mistake that other members of the community reacted to promptly (even those who have been repeatedly provoked, harassed and/or harangued by EF and bear him and TLR no personal friendship).
For those would would suggest that the Illyriad community does not hold up its ideals, I would say that in fact this is an example of those ideals at work. To wit: Smaller players are left in peace to grow. Larger players who have some experience are expected to fight their own battles, with of course the assistance of any allies who rally to their cause due to personal affection, political pragmatism or just a love of conflict.
I remain interested to hear what Aesir's reasons for starting the war are.
jtk, it is my understanding that TLR has expressed a desire to locate in Ursor, but not a claim to all or even part of it. TLR has in fact specifically said it is not making such a claim. If TLR did make such a claim, I am guessing that many would oppose it, such as the large and varied number of alliances (including mine) that are already located there, some of which pre-exist TLR's claims.
Edited by Rill - 25 Jul 2012 at 17:39
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Fred Evil
New Poster
Joined: 25 Jul 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 12
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Posted: 25 Jul 2012 at 16:46 |
So far, clear and concise reasons for engaging in this war have NOT been released.
Only the declaration that Nobody of a certain smaller population will be brought into the situation without active aggression.
The first part is true, no reasons have been made apparent beyond the 'we don't like your leader' position.
The second part is only NOW true after much public whining by yours truly, and an appropriate response from the community at large. The initial attacks DID include newbs (or semi-newbs), and did not come with a heads up beforehand, the only announcement of war and the accompanying advice to leave came AFTER hundreds of thousands of my resources were pillaged, and hundreds of my fellow countryfolk lay dead at my feet. Only public outrage brought the assaults upon my burgeoning villages and towns to a halt. I do owe a debt of gratitude to those involved in convincing the aggressors to subside their attacks.
Indeed, even now, hours after my cities have been raided and sieged, we have no concrete understanding of the cause of this war, we have no means or path to supplicate the significantly larger alliance that has apparently taken issue with us.
For those who think themselves the arbiters of justice and fair play within Elgea, this does not reflect well upon you. Such actions are without honor, and as such shall not have a blind eye turned to them.
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The_Dude
Postmaster General
Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 2396
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Posted: 25 Jul 2012 at 16:44 |
Sloter wrote:
That will teach TLR to win in wars that were declared on them :) How dare they, they must be destroyed.
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geofrey
Postmaster General
Joined: 31 May 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1013
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Posted: 25 Jul 2012 at 16:41 |
Sloter wrote:
That will teach TLR to win in wars that were declared on them :) How dare they, they must be destroyed.
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hahaha. great point.
Conflict is great, TLR and TRO had a war over a specific issue. They decided to fight it out amongst themselves. and they agreed to terms to end it. nothing wrong with that.
Aesir has declared war/hostilities against TLR for unknown reasons?. Great, more conflict and action! except no one knows what Aesir wants, other than destruction of all of TLR. That seems a bit harsh to me...
I could see the destruction of the alliance capitol, or maybe capturing 5 towns from TLR to teach them a lesson of Aesir's morality. That seems like an appropriate terms of peace... but "blow up everything" is a little on the evil villain side of things.
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