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BellusRex 
Wordsmith
Joined: 09 Jul 2011
Location: Mountains
Status: Offline
Points: 156
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 Topic: Æsir's Crusade vs. TLR
Posted: 28 Jul 2012 at 22:55 |
I'm writing on this on my beat up, sticky keyed laptop, so I have to keep it short in order not get totally hostile with the d*mn thing and jump up and down on it...
First, I'll just agree to disagree about the role of the forum, outside parties, etc. I don't think any one is really going to change their opinions, nor do they have to...
And while not agreeing at all with the majority of what they said, I would thank Salararius, etc., for the effort to address ideas and opinions in a serious matter. Often there's not a lot of that on the forum.
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"War is the father of all things..."
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Gilthoniel
Forum Warrior
Joined: 11 Oct 2011
Location: Cuiviénen
Status: Offline
Points: 211
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Posted: 28 Jul 2012 at 13:49 |
 LordOfTheSwamp wrote:
(All rather academic anyway, seeing as how TLR and Aesir are now NAPed, not at War, AFAIK.) |
Indeed they have been for so some hours | NAP |
The Long Road [TLRâ„¢] |
Æsir [Æsir] |
27 Jul 2012 22:29 |
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Always pays to check the ticker tape before you publish the front page!
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LordOfTheSwamp
Forum Warrior
Joined: 23 May 2011
Location: Swamp of Fyrgis
Status: Offline
Points: 481
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Posted: 28 Jul 2012 at 06:14 |
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(All rather academic anyway, seeing as how TLR and Aesir are now NAPed, not at War, AFAIK.)
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"A boy is building sandcastles on a beach. You go and kick down his castle. You could say that it only reflects how you play with sandcastles. Others may think it reflects who you are." - Ander.
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LordOfTheSwamp
Forum Warrior
Joined: 23 May 2011
Location: Swamp of Fyrgis
Status: Offline
Points: 481
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Posted: 28 Jul 2012 at 05:56 |
Kumomoto wrote:
Glad to see you can't resist grinding your old favorite Valar axe Kurdruk. (although this is nothing like that conflict).
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I think a quick search of the forums for my posts would illustrate how very rarely I mention the "Valar war" (Or Valar lynching. Or lynching of Azreil. Or great-running-away-of Azreil. Or whatever it was.) I think the last time I mentioned it was to observe that it has become mythologised - that it is now changed every time it is discussed, and exists as a notional event rather than a historical event. My view is that when people talk about that episode now they generally either try to use it to show how evil H? are, or to show how lovely the community were for so readily facing down the great evil of Valar, both propositions being equally ludicrous.
Kumomoto wrote:
I'm sorry H? Hasn't obliged you by jumping into this one... You must be terribly disappointed. It doesn't make your community "mob" theories as easy to defend... |
Why would I suggest that H? were part of a mob. I'm not aware that I have ever suggested it before.
Plenty of people act exactly as Ander suggested. I recall someone in Champs threatening to destroy an entire alliance because of one thieving incident. The community's eagerness to attack Valar is another example (that's "the community's", distinct from "H?'s").
Ander is right to say that's how Illy often works.
I'm not sure how you get from that to the notion that H? is being criticised.
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"A boy is building sandcastles on a beach. You go and kick down his castle. You could say that it only reflects how you play with sandcastles. Others may think it reflects who you are." - Ander.
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SugarFree
Forum Warrior
Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 350
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Posted: 28 Jul 2012 at 05:56 |
Kumomoto wrote:
It doesn't make your community "mob" theories as easy to defend... |
those are more than just mere theories, and you know that to. do not insult our intelligence.
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Abraxox
Greenhorn
Joined: 07 Jan 2012
Location: San Antonio, TX
Status: Offline
Points: 73
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Posted: 28 Jul 2012 at 05:39 |
Although I played no part in the dealings with TRO, I would like to try to clear something up which EF didn't want to address in GC, but spoke of with me in AC. These are my sentiments, and do not reflect an official position of the TLR leadership, but are based upon my personal understanding(s). The condition of proximity to TLR settlements took into account all current locations of TRO members and indicated that new settlements should encroach no closer than the boundaries which TRO has already established. The medal agreement as part of TRO's ToS was retracted shortly after the agreement was reached. Negative consequences occurred as a result of TLR's unyielding belief that the negotiation of the ToS was a private matter between TLR and TRO. It should be noted that there was never a realistic expectation that such terms would ever be accepted "as is" by TRO. These terms were presented as only an initial stage of negotiation, but Thordor didn't choose to negotiate, it seems. I guess some people consider EF to be intimidating; I know he scares some people. As I understand it, the ToS negotiation was approached with the mindset of haggling. When haggling on the seller's side, you always start high, then let the other person work the offer/terms downward, but that doesn't seem to have happened. Inexperience was the culprit, I'd imagine. I think that a lot of what EF presents in GC is more tongue-in-cheek than a lot of people realize, but that is just my opinion. (I could be wrong.) I did try to get EF to make clear in GC that the terms were being rehashed back when the issue first came up in GC, but he didn't want to do that, believing that none of it was truly anyone else's business. I may get chewed out for expressing my opinions/observations here, but so be it. As a final thought concerning EF, I ask the following: Have you ever heard of being the devil's advocate? 
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Kumomoto
Postmaster General
Joined: 19 Oct 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2224
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Posted: 28 Jul 2012 at 05:33 |
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Glad to see you can't resist grinding your old favorite Valar axe Kurdruk. (although this is nothing like that conflict).
I'm sorry H? Hasn't obliged you by jumping into this one... You must be terribly disappointed. It doesn't make your community "mob" theories as easy to defend...
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Rill
Postmaster General
Player Council - Geographer
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6903
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Posted: 28 Jul 2012 at 05:31 |
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Why can't I in fact be ambivalent? I'm ambivalent a lot, actually. Things often aren't black and white. Certainly the longer I've participated in Illy, the more nuanced my views on such situations have become.
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LordOfTheSwamp
Forum Warrior
Joined: 23 May 2011
Location: Swamp of Fyrgis
Status: Offline
Points: 481
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Posted: 28 Jul 2012 at 05:26 |
Rill wrote:
I must be a harsh critic indeed if saying I am ambivalent about an action is taken for high praise. |
That's disingenuous.
Rill wrote:
I am ambivalent about whether war is the right response, but I applaud you for standing up for what you believe in |
You can't applaud someone for "standing up", hedge around whether or not you like the manner of their standing, and then claim you aren't applauding them.
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"A boy is building sandcastles on a beach. You go and kick down his castle. You could say that it only reflects how you play with sandcastles. Others may think it reflects who you are." - Ander.
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Rill
Postmaster General
Player Council - Geographer
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6903
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Posted: 28 Jul 2012 at 05:02 |
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I must be a harsh critic indeed if saying I am ambivalent about an action is taken for high praise.
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Æsir's Crusade vs. TLR
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