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Rorgash 
Postmaster
Joined: 23 Aug 2011
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Points: 894
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 Posted: 29 Mar 2012 at 17:49 |
wI did not know that catapults fired at buildings in a normal attack, and not sure i can trust you word for it, but i will for now until its confirm by more people.
but wall defense bonus is decided by the lvl itself, as a static bonus, so if you are wondering about the effect of using a ram in a normal battle, then the rams would have to roll against a hit against the walls before the battle starts and then the real battle starts.
But if im wrong in siege engines effect in normal attacks against cities then i will go back on things said there.
never heard that from anyone before... oh well, i learned something
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Ander
Postmaster General
Joined: 24 Apr 2011
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Points: 1269
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Posted: 29 Mar 2012 at 17:44 |
 Calico_Jack wrote:
they wont, currently siege weapons are only useful when used in a siege assault. they only function as scripted to do their rolls against the towns once a siege camp has been established. |
dude, siege engines do fire in a normal attack, if the attack is successful. You dont need a siege camp to bring a few building levels down.
My question was about what Darkwords said - that the siege damage calculated is before the actual battle taking place. I just wanted to know if there is some logic in work that calculates the defense bonus change from the destroyed wall levels.
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Rorgash
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Points: 894
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Posted: 29 Mar 2012 at 17:30 |
they wont, currently siege weapons are only useful when used in a siege assault. they only function as scripted to do their rolls against the towns once a siege camp has been established.
I figured out something else, or rather it clicked abit,
Some brought up that these weapons dont do much dmg in a battle, and compared to the archers and infantry this is ofcourse very true, but looking at an army and the cost of catapults, you wont have more then tops 40-50 in a army and thats a siege army, so a normal army might have 5-20 which compared to your 5-20k normal troops is very little.
Im not asking so much for catapults to become a viable unit to mass in your army, but just adding dmg to them in a assault.
adding the decrease to defense bonus if you bring the ram with you is another thing, but i still feel this is what i thought it would do when i first saw them.
Edited by Calico_Jack - 29 Mar 2012 at 17:40
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Ander
Postmaster General
Joined: 24 Apr 2011
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Points: 1269
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Posted: 29 Mar 2012 at 17:24 |
Darkwords wrote:
Also by destroying the wall they do lower its defensive strength in a normal attack, this is why the damage inflicted by seige engines is done before the combat when they are sent as part of a standard attack.
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Has anyone tested this? What if you send 10 catapults/rams and 90% of your attacking army is destroyed? Will the city take damage from 1 catapult or all the 10? Also, what if the whole attacking force is destroyed? Is it different for rams and catapults?
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Rorgash
Postmaster
Joined: 23 Aug 2011
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Points: 894
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Posted: 29 Mar 2012 at 11:02 |
lets move a few years into our future finding the cannon and lets hear someone say you can be killed by them...
a cannon being a modernized version of a catapult, they hurt alot when flying against a horde of enemies, ofcourse adding a % chance for hits depending on size of enemy force.
I mean i could write up how do program this in if needed, not the specific code, been too long since i studied webdesign and programming but the way to set it up, But i felt thats for the devs to figure out since i dont know how they program their combat here, and if % chances is even possible.
Im still hoping for a massive Battle overhaul to bring in combat tactics to the fighting, where catapults and the likes would be very useful in larger engagements.
(i have more thoughts about the combat overhaul but i wont speak of them here)
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Rill
Postmaster General
Player Council - Geographer
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
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Points: 6903
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Posted: 29 Mar 2012 at 10:47 |
Battering rams, siege hooks, etc. are siege weapons that are used to take down walls, which then reduces the defensive bonus given to defending troops. So there is a way that siege engines can be used to lower the defensive values of troops.
I have no comment on the argument over whether siege engines "really" would kill troops or not. In medieval times, one could not "really" be killed by an orc or an elf. Being killed by a dwarf would be possible but unlikely. I don't think we're striving for historical realism.
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Darkwords
Postmaster General
Joined: 23 May 2011
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Points: 1005
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Posted: 29 Mar 2012 at 10:47 |
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LOL....
They do not defend against the rams, they are destroyed by the rams.
Nor do they give a bonus to the sally forth. The sally forth combat takes part on the seige camp, not in the city.
However, in regards to your topic, as stated before I do beleive that catapult units should inflict some damage when used in large battles, however I beleive they would be useless against small forces and even against large ones, they would not have a great effect and therefore would not be worth risking in combat due to the cost in building and maintaining them.
In regards to the tourtoise, it is a battering ram with a roof, so of course it should damage the walls, rather than temporarily reducing their defensive strength. Also by destroying the wall they do lower its defensive strength in a normal attack, this is why the damage inflicted by seige engines is done before the combat when they are sent as part of a standard attack.
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Rorgash
Postmaster
Joined: 23 Aug 2011
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Points: 894
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Posted: 29 Mar 2012 at 09:48 |
they do lots, they defend against the rams :P
and the sally forth ability which gives the sally forth troops a huge bonus kills alot when doing it including siege engines.
BUT this has NOTHING to do with this topic, make your own if you want to bring this up
Why don't my Trebuchets do any damage if used to attack or defend against enemies?
Trebuchets should do damage, and like other units have bonuses and problems in different terrains.
Tortoise should help lowering the defensive bonus of walls when used in a normal attack against a town. not destroying the wall, but lowering the bonus by maybe 20-30% (not for each unit ofcourse)
Edited by Calico_Jack - 29 Mar 2012 at 09:50
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Darkwords
Postmaster General
Joined: 23 May 2011
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Points: 1005
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Posted: 29 Mar 2012 at 09:35 |
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They do nothing in regards to seige defence. So I really dont see the point in that.
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Rorgash
Postmaster
Joined: 23 Aug 2011
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Points: 894
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Posted: 28 Mar 2012 at 14:57 |
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the 110% defense increase from lvl 20 walls are huge already, they could just add abit of flavor text for some lvls saying they add those :P
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Siege Engines Defense and attack